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Raven1

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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2004, 12:12:57 PM »
Come'on Kyle Come to The Dark Side!!

HK does make the finest arms in the world and now they make the finest M4 in the world too!  Plus it is inferior no more with all of the patented HK designs incorporated into the rifle.

Now you have the cool looks, ultra reliability, HK barrel accuracy/resiliency and with the new magazine design it doesn't care what ammo you feed it.  This thing is like Rush Limbaugh at the drug store counter begging for another pill to spit out its barrel.

Kyle, I disagree with you saying HK made another clone!  All of the other makers do not have HK's patented intellectual property that makes HK the Gold Standard in weapons when the proverbial ass needs kicking!

I want one so bad it's making me feel funny, you know, Down There!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »

Offline Airsofter1

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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2004, 12:13:00 PM »
The forward assist knob exists as an function of redundancy.  Having one placed on most reliable weapon in the world would not be a bad idea.  Even if you never had to use it it is nice to know that its there if you had to.  In combat you just never know what could happen!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Airsofter1 »

Offline azsarge

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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2004, 12:26:07 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Raven1</i>
<br />Come'on Kyle Come to The Dark Side!!

HK does make the finest arms in the world and now they make the finest M4 in the world too!  Plus it is inferior no more with all of the patented HK designs incorporated into the rifle.

Now you have the cool looks, ultra reliability, HK barrel accuracy/resiliency and with the new magazine design it doesn't care what ammo you feed it.  This thing is like Rush Limbaugh at the drug store counter begging for another pill to spit out its barrel.

Kyle, I disagree with you saying HK made another clone!  All of the other makers do not have HK's patented intellectual property that makes HK the Gold Standard in weapons when the proverbial ass needs kicking!

I want one so bad it's making me feel funny, you know, Down There!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Like when you climb the rope in gym class?

Just watch, slowly they will release "mods" to this rifle that will slowly turn it into a G36.  It's an HK conspiracy, and I will have no part of it.

Mein Gewehr ist mein Gewehr, versuchen Sie nicht, es zu ändern! Das wird mich sehr böse machen, und Sie möchten mich nicht, wenn ich böse bin. KOMPLOTT!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »

Raven1

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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2004, 03:33:29 PM »
Exactly, Christian!  But not in that weird sort of way when you see the kid in class who climbs all the way to the top, and just keeps climbing!

Conspiracy nothing, finally an accurate, durable, stake your life on it reliable M4!  It's what it should have been from the beginning and it's finally here!  What's wrong with you people, it's like we have been waiting around for it for so long and now that it's here people don't believe it or want to accept it.

I Want My HK M4 People!  M4 is still an an M4, just because Chevy is made in Mexico doesn't mean it's still not American as warm apple pie!  And besides Chevy started in America as a French Company!  "Chevrolet," Hello people, wake up now!

So don't give me that crap, hypocrits watching Japanese televisions, driving a European car, dating a Mexican girl friend over dinner at an Chinese restaurant, handing her French chocolates while wearing your designer Italian loafers!

Sad bunch of Suckas!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »

Offline Pancho

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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2004, 04:58:35 PM »
Maybe I am missing something here, but it just looks like a short-barrelled M4 w/ picatinny rails all over the place. Perhaps being made by HK is going to make it...what? more reliable? We could argue that point til the cows come home...but I think that the M4 is already a very reliable weapon...IF you like the round. They have a tendency to be finicky as to what ammo they'll take, but I have found that to be largely a characteristic of who made the upper..specifically, the barrel.

I am neither a huge fan of the family, nor an opponent to it. I do like the weapon for some things..but in reality, it is a barely adequate battle rifle, that needs a larger, more potent round to be TRULY effective. I've read too many reports from every engagement since Vietnam that the 5.56 round is not effective in certain battle situations. Soldiers know what they need more than politicians do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Pancho »
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Raven1

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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2004, 06:28:54 PM »
Just talking about the engineering and patented designs HK has!  Because of the HK intellectual property the rifle is infinitely more reliable!  There is no need for debate because it would be a short one, just go with the facts of the engineering alone.

1.) Cold hammered steel barrel and twisted to give it it's rifling, no heating here people so the brittleness typical of molecular change in the atomic structure of carbon in the steel is not present, again the engineering alone allows it to shoot ANY Ammunition, with ANY Length Barrel with out affecting performance, greatly increases accuracy over sustained usage since the steel does not degrade like that characteristic of the heat forging process. (HK Proprietary)

2.) Hardened steel bolt, piston actuated, short stroke, refined bolt and lugs, smoother/positive operation, combined with an improved buffer spring/piston design which is smaller and more robust BY Design (HK Proprietary)

3.) HK gas system that exhausts forward and away, cooler operation, less wear-again because the exhaust gas tube has been eliminated, so it will fire under water, full of water or mud just like any other HK. (HK Proprietary)

4.) Famous HK trigger group

5.) Steel magazine that has been redesigned for optimum feeding

Standard HK Modularity, ease of maintenance, interchangable componentry and soon to be added an HK engineered integrated optical sight system, scope system and redundant steel sights for back up.

Come on People!  What's not to be excited about, reach for it and it work's HK reliabilty proven over and over again!  This thing will shoot 20,000 rounds with out cleaning, in extreme condtions, with all types of ammo with all lengths of barrels and with out incident and still be accurate.

The round is a whole seperate issue entirely!  But now that the DESIGN is sound and proven they can move onto the projectile!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »

Offline Legs

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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2004, 08:21:42 PM »
I love Hector.  Always have.  That's all.

PS   I agree with the theory of the above, amiguito.  I'm just very, very skeptical.  The body HAS to have been changed inorder to incorporate such radical differences, especially in the gas system...and there are no visible cosmetic differences.  The guts of the AR/M4 are TIGHT, and that leaves no room for playing around in that space.  I love HK and they are THE standard for high end rifles in the world, though the FAL and the SIG rifles stand on firm ground as well, but this still bothers me.  
I'll clarify three things for those of you who think I'm unpleaseable with guns.  (Is that even a word?)
There are three guns I want desperately to love.  The AR/M4 (line), the 1911 line, and the Glock (line).  I have yet to be able to trust any of them with my life because of inherent malfunctions.  Don't bother flaming me, fans of the above...I've owned far too many guns and fired far too many rounds to be convinced that I'm wrong.  I'm reflecting on my own experience here, which is more useful to me than any book data, etc.  I love everything about the AR15 and the 1911 EXCEPT for their consistency in jamming.  And the Glock...I just want to like it because it has proimise.  Too much there that I don't like to get into right now.  My point is that if someone were to actually make any of the above in a functional format, I'd be the biggest fan.  I do not believe that it can be done without cosmetic changes, though, which would show the proof of the internal mods.  Especially, again, in the area of the M4s horrible gas system.  I WANT a reliable M4.  I just don't see how it can be done without changing the body itself.
And for the forward assist...I have owned almost every combat rifle made, or at least fired them enough to have this to say...I've never needed to force a round into battery in anything but an AR15, and even then, it never worked.  Adding one here, especially if the gun is as good as HK is claiming, is like setting a bucket of water next to a new toilet with a sign that says, "Don't worry...it'll flush when you depress the lever, but just in case..."  I like guns that don't "leave the poop floating" after I've depressed the lever...

I'll hope, but I doubt.  In the case of the M4, it hasn't earned my trust in advance...even one made by HK.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Legs »
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Offline Pancho

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« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2004, 03:31:25 AM »
Hector, you'd make a GREAT salesman! Over half of 'selling' is:
A) Being excited
& B) Selling the "sizzle"

You certainly can do both of these regarding something that you are passionate about.

After I posted, I reread the article, and you are right. There appears to be some significant changes. Changes for the better, no doubt. Now lets see them work on the round issue!

Kyle: "guns that don't <i>leave the poop floating</i>"??  LOL, you have a way with words, my friend!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Pancho »
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Raven1

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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2004, 10:00:12 AM »
No flames directed at anyone.

Just Really Geeked about the prospect of owning this rifle!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »

Offline Legs

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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2004, 02:01:29 PM »
If you meant me, Hector, none taken and none intended either.  It might surprise you to know just how much I want this to be legit as well.  I love the rifle and if they'll build one that works better and they'll offer it to us poor civie types, I'll throw in for one with the rest of you.

Fun debate, though!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Legs »
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Raven1

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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2004, 03:13:54 PM »
Not directed towards anyone in particular, especially you Kyle.  

It's just that In can barely contain my excitement, HK is legit and their reputation precedes them.  That is why I am supremely confident that this is not a "sell out" weapon to make a boat load of cash!  The have a world renowned reputation at stake and definitely know that "All eyes are on us!"  So when they made this rifle, the made it the HK, the only way to make an M4 when compromise is not in your vocabulary!

That is why ( in my opinion ) HK commands the benefit of the doubt!  Did I Mention How Geeked I Am About This Rifle!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »

Raven1

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« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2004, 06:52:36 PM »
This months (February) Solder of Fortune Magazine has an article on the XM-8 replacing the M-16 family of rifles.  You will note that the very last paragraph of the article has mention of an HK Re-Design of the M4 upper receiver based on the G36 upper receiver that is said to be a direct "Drop In" replacement!  And goes on to mention that thus far HK has been extremely tight lipped about this endeavor!  So run on down to the Barnes & Noble (That's a book store TAZ) pick up the issue and check it out!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raven1 »