Airsoft Arizona
General Airsoft Arizona => General Airsoft Discussion => Topic started by: Dayton on August 15, 2012, 03:22:48 PM
-
SB1315 has passed senate and house, and is waiting to be signed into law. We need to prevent this!
Most recent draft I know of: http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB131598AMD (http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB131598AMD)
Please help, follow the directions below, and please respond as MATURE and professional as possible, don't give them any more reasons to progress this bill.
*copied from P*talk*
If you can, please click the link, scroll down to SB1315 and click CON, and reply.
http://gov.ca.gov/m_contact.php (http://gov.ca.gov/m_contact.php)
SB1315 is:
1) Destruction of existing federal law, which is more than adequate! Law breakers should be punished for breaking the law. Should we ban cars because one irresponsible individual choose to drive under the influence? Whats next.. ban matches because someone was irresponsible and started a fire? Laws only effect the law abiding, criminals DONT OBEY THE LAW so this will have zero impact except to harm law abiding citizens!
2) SB1315 is clear favoritism for the paint ball industry. Paintball was loosing popularity due to video games, NOT Airsoft. Airsoft is the reason thousands of young adults get out of the house on weekends. Airsoft is among the safest and the most popular sports in America today with millions of fans!
3) SB1315 would be devastating to the already struggling California economy and jobs market. What California CANNOT afford is 500+ million in lost revenue / 2000+ jobs, loss of income to the thousands of businesses that support the industry, everything from shipping companies to office supply stores.
-
I thought this only affected cali? I mean im sure its only time before it comes here.
-
I thought this only affected cali? I mean im sure its only time before it comes here.
It does. And by affecting cali, it shuts down Evike, AirsoftGI, AirsoftExtreme, Airsplat...
-
With a state in such economic depression its probably a great idea that this passes. Unbelievable. Haha faggot California. What's new.
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only affects "...a spot marker gun that expels a projectile larger than 16mm," as quoted by the link below. Airsoft guns shoot either 6mm or 8mm projectiles, which is considerably smaller than 16mm, thus rendering them unaffected by SB 1315, according to the information I've found:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html)
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only affects "...a spot marker gun that expels a projectile larger than 16mm," as quoted by the link below. Airsoft guns shoot either 6mm or 8mm projectiles, which is considerably smaller than 16mm, thus rendering them unaffected by SB 1315, according to the information I've found:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html)
Boy, sure does look like that. But there's no way that so many major players got it wrong, I'll have to ask around the California airsoft circles about this.
-
It says replica fire arms, I think it means exactly airsoft
-
Check again. http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB131598AMD (http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB131598AMD)
AMENDED IN SENATE MARCH 29, 2012
This bill would provide an exception to those provisions by
authorizing the County of Los Angeles, or any city within the County
of Los Angeles, to enact and enforce an ordinance or resolution
regulating the manufacture, sale, possession, or use of a
spot marker gun that expels a projectile larger than 16mm
that is more restrictive than state law regulating the
manufacture, sale, possession, or use of any BB device, toy gun,
replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially
similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm
as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a
firearm and that expels a projectile that is no more than 16
millimeters in diameter .
-
Looks like it only affects LA county for now.
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only affects "...a spot marker gun that expels a projectile larger than 16mm," as quoted by the link below. Airsoft guns shoot either 6mm or 8mm projectiles, which is considerably smaller than 16mm, thus rendering them unaffected by SB 1315, according to the information I've found:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120223_introduced.html)
Ah, you were looking at the "introduced" version, here is the current and "enrolled" version: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120814_enrolled.html (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_1301-1350/sb_1315_bill_20120814_enrolled.html)
Looks like it only affects LA county for now.
So, if ASGI, Evike, AEX, and more get shut down, and Airsoft Sales diminish, Imports reduce, that only affects LA? I guarantee it not only affects LA, and I think we all know LA is just the first, not the last.
-
I say we all move to taiwan and our problems will be solved ;D
-
Airsoft GI had posted on their facebook page that they loved the support from others, but the only opposition that the representatives and senators care about are the opinions of California residents and citizens. Calling from Arizona wont really do much unfortunately, though I wish it did.
-
Well if it does pass(just sayin) Then all the big stores(Evike, ASGI, Airsoft Megastore, Ect. )
They have a chance to keep their buissness by relocating to our state, and we have good walking producers in your own "backyard"
Well even though evike just bought that new building :/
-
Well if it does pass(just sayin) Then all the big stores(Evike, ASGI, Airsoft Megastore, Ect. )
They have a chance to keep their buissness by relocating to our state, and we have good walking producers in your own "backyard"
Well even though evike just bought that new building :/
They would not move yo Az. Arizona is a land lock state from what I have read asgi already bought property in Texas I have also heard evike bought property in Washington state. Unfortunately because we are a land locked state we won't be seeing Amy of the big Airsoft compacts moving to Az if this bill passes.
-
Well if it does pass(just sayin) Then all the big stores(Evike, ASGI, Airsoft Megastore, Ect. )
They have a chance to keep their buissness by relocating to our state, and we have good walking producers in your own "backyard"
Well even though evike just bought that new building :/
They would not move yo Az. Arizona is a land lock state from what I have read asgi already bought property in Texas I have also heard evike bought property in Washington state. Unfortunately because we are a land locked state we won't be seeing Amy of the big Airsoft compacts moving to Az if this bill passes.
Crap! I love AZ
-
Yea I heard this only affects LA. But if this starts to hurt their buisness I think it will be inevitable that they will search for other locations :( sucks because anything ordered from CA takes like one buisness day to get to AZ.
-
This affects all of LA County, which includes other cities besides LA proper...
Big Brother looking out for me is always scary...
-
i have 15 relatives in California and they are all voting against this awful law
-
Lawyers get richer, Airsoft guns get pricier, Cali shoots itself in foot again.
Me, I'd write the AZ Economic Development folks and see if they could attract Airsplat, et al here. We're close enough to the coast that rail and trucks could offset the problem.
-
Chip hit it on the nose. "Land locked"? You need to familiarize yourself with the state you reside in.
AZ is one of the most business friendly states in the union. However, we have no ports and transportation expenses are the result.
However what scares me is the potential progression, lawmakers love using passed CA laws as an example e.g. C.A.R.B.
-
Well, if it makes you feel better, California has had a motorcycle helmet law for quite awhile now. We bikers here in AZ (with at least half the riders here) don't
-
Well, if it makes you feel better, California has had a motorcycle helmet law for quite awhile now. We bikers here in AZ (with at least half the riders here) don't
I agree with this, just because something happens in Cali does not mean that it will bleed over into AZ, but I am still sad for the Cali airsofters and ASGI, evike, etc :-\
-
Yes AZ does in fact have a helmet law, it does have limitations however...
Arizona's current helmet law:
Section 28-964.
Motorcycles; all-terrain vehicles; motor driven cycles; equipment; exception; prohibition
A. An operator or passenger of a motorcycle, all-terrain vehicle or motor driven cycle who is under eighteen years of age shall wear at all times a protective helmet on the operator's or passenger's head in an appropriate manner. The protective helmet shall be safely secured while the operator or passenger is operating or riding on the motorcycle, all-terrain vehicle or motor driven cycle. An operator of a motorcycle, all-terrain vehicle or motor driven cycle shall wear at all times protective glasses, goggles or a transparent face shield of a type approved by the director unless the motorcycle, all-terrain vehicle or motor driven cycle is equipped with a protective windshield. This subsection does not apply to electrically powered three wheeled vehicles or three wheeled vehicles on which the operator and passenger ride within an enclosed cab.
-
@Dayton Thanks for the correction. Looks like in the revision they changed it to "...a projectile no BIGGER than 16mm in diameter," which would indeed include airsoft guns.
Another day, another baseless, stupid, and freedom-infringing law proposed in COMMIEfornia. Personally, I don't think this will stand. They've tried this before... What was the last one? SB 798, right? Didn't pass, neither will this. It would effectively cripple the industry in the U.S., which the manufactures, distributors, retailers, and community won't take likely nor let happen without one hell of a fight.
One thing that is a bit confusing to me about the law though, is that it cites the 'regulation' of imitation firearms. What exactly does that mean? More taxes on them? Higher age limits to purchase them? Local government oversight over their sale/distribution? Hell, REGISTERING them? Can anyone shed some light on how exactly they plan to 'regulate' airsoft replicas with this new law if it were to pass?
Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if this was some sort of legislation Commiefornia is testing on replica guns, in order to eventually take it one step further into REAL firearms... But that's a discussion for another topic.
-
Chip hit it on the nose. "Land locked"? You need to familiarize yourself with the state you reside in.
AZ is one of the most business friendly states in the union. However, we have no ports and transportation expenses are the result.
However what scares me is the potential progression, lawmakers love using passed CA laws as an example e.g. C.A.R.B.
It doesn't matter if we're business friendly if California is going to seize cargo containers of airsoft guns at their ports and destroy them. They'd have to land their ships in Oregon/Washington, or on the Atlantic/Gulf coast to avoid that, and at that point they might as well just have the warehouse and store there to avoid unnecessary overland shipping costs.
-
@Dayton Thanks for the correction. Looks like in the revision they changed it to "...a projectile no BIGGER than 16mm in diameter," which would indeed include airsoft guns.
Another day, another baseless, stupid, and freedom-infringing law proposed in COMMIEfornia. Personally, I don't think this will stand. They've tried this before... What was the last one? SB 798, right? Didn't pass, neither will this. It would effectively cripple the industry in the U.S., which the manufactures, distributors, retailers, and community won't take likely nor let happen without one hell of a fight.
One thing that is a bit confusing to me about the law though, is that it cites the 'regulation' of imitation firearms. What exactly does that mean? More taxes on them? Higher age limits to purchase them? Local government oversight over their sale/distribution? Hell, REGISTERING them? Can anyone shed some light on how exactly they plan to 'regulate' airsoft replicas with this new law if it were to pass?
Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if this was some sort of legislation Commiefornia is testing on replica guns, in order to eventually take it one step further into REAL firearms... But that's a discussion for another topic.
Yes, this was in 2009 (If I remember correctly) They wanted all Paintball, BB, Airsoft guns to be painted a predominately bright color or be translucent as to show Police Officers that they are in fact imitations. I myself am from California and was there when this was happening and quite a few of my friends and family had signed against it. They called it the "Cop Killer" Bill (California SB 798).
What these morons don't realize is that "real" firearms are also colored differently, people more and more are getting them hydrographed or painted camouflage, bright and normal colors. It doesn't take but $25 to get a bright colored hydrofilm pattern and put it to an actual firearm, this bill again, will not pass.
-
I thought this only affected cali? I mean im sure its only time before it comes here.
It does. And by affecting cali, it shuts down Evike, AirsoftGI, AirsoftExtreme, Airsplat...
Even if this gets passed which the past is the best predictor of the future. I highly doubt it will... However being that Cali is by foremost controlled by democrats I almost wouldn't be surprised. They have fought for gun control in every possible way everywhere. Also will use any excuse for it too.. Who pushed for gun control after every violent action involving guns in America so far? Thus is the reason we harp on people trespassing on land and those who carry an airsoft gun on their hip in public. Or even those who don't cover their airsoft gun while walking into a store front. All it takes is one incident.
Those companies, should this be passed will pack up and move to AZ or Nevada more than likely. It's just hurting Cali's already crumbling economy.
Don't get me wrong, sign the petition... Though I don't know if it will do much.
Sgt.C :This was attempted in 2009 and again 2011-12. Now for the third time... All by the same guy.
-
Sgt.C :This was attempted in 2009 and again 2011-12. Now for the third time... All by the same guy.
Didn't realize it happened again in '11. I was in Washington State at that time following work. I was born and raised in Cali. As much as I HATE everything "government" related about that State, it's still the only State I always go back to. (And the only state I know I can snowboard and surf all in the same day Heh)
As for them trying to hammer on guns in the State of California, there are a lot of good reasons for it. Case and Point. L.A., March 1st 1997. The B of A Robbery down in North Hollywood. 6 civilians, 10 officers injured and both robbers were killed.
There were over 300 Police Officers and FBI Agents there, they had to go to the local gun store and get assault rifles because our Police Officers only carried pistols and shotguns, nothing of that caliber. Now, until idiots like that or ones that shoot up schools or theaters, Airsofters I feel will never see the end.
-
As for them trying to hammer on guns in the State of California, there are a lot of good reasons for it. Case and Point. L.A., March 1st 1997. The B of A Robbery down in North Hollywood. 6 civilians, 10 officers injured and both robbers were killed.
There were over 300 Police Officers and FBI Agents there, they had to go to the local gun store and get assault rifles because our Police Officers only carried pistols and shotguns, nothing of that caliber. Now, until idiots like that or ones that shoot up schools or theaters, Airsofters I feel will never see the end.
Why should civilian gun owners be punished because the cops didn't have assault rifles? Jared Laughner committed his atrocity with a Glock... So does that mean Arizona needs to pass laws against owning Glocks now?
-
Sgt.C :This was attempted in 2009 and again 2011-12. Now for the third time... All by the same guy.
Didn't realize it happened again in '11. I was in Washington State at that time following work. I was born and raised in Cali. As much as I HATE everything "government" related about that State, it's still the only State I always go back to. (And the only state I know I can snowboard and surf all in the same day Heh)
As for them trying to hammer on guns in the State of California, there are a lot of good reasons for it. Case and Point. L.A., March 1st 1997. The B of A Robbery down in North Hollywood. 6 civilians, 10 officers injured and both robbers were killed.
There were over 300 Police Officers and FBI Agents there, they had to go to the local gun store and get assault rifles because our Police Officers only carried pistols and shotguns, nothing of that caliber. Now, until idiots like that or ones that shoot up schools or theaters, Airsofters I feel will never see the end.
And if guns had been banned those gun stores would not have been there and dozens more cops would have been killed due to a complete lack of ability to obtain more powerful arms. I'm not getting how civilian gun ownership was a bad thing here.
-
Sgt.C :This was attempted in 2009 and again 2011-12. Now for the third time... All by the same guy.
Didn't realize it happened again in '11. I was in Washington State at that time following work. I was born and raised in Cali. As much as I HATE everything "government" related about that State, it's still the only State I always go back to. (And the only state I know I can snowboard and surf all in the same day Heh)
As for them trying to hammer on guns in the State of California, there are a lot of good reasons for it. Case and Point. L.A., March 1st 1997. The B of A Robbery down in North Hollywood. 6 civilians, 10 officers injured and both robbers were killed.
There were over 300 Police Officers and FBI Agents there, they had to go to the local gun store and get assault rifles because our Police Officers only carried pistols and shotguns, nothing of that caliber. Now, until idiots like that or ones that shoot up schools or theaters, Airsofters I feel will never see the end.
And if guns had been banned those gun stores would not have been there and dozens more cops would have been killed due to a complete lack of ability to obtain more powerful arms. I'm not getting how civilian gun ownership was a bad thing here.
Indeed. Those Civilians, AND Police Officers were very lucky to have a dealer right around the corner. I'm Pro firearms. I come from the High Sierras, my family has hunted for winter stocks for many years. It seems California is stomping on us more and more every year. We had to put an old 22 Marlin stock on a 9mm rifle we had because the original stock became "illegal", then they banned any kind of rifle in California that had more than a 10 round magazine is prohibited to sell in California.
Pm'd as to not go so far off this topic.
-
Indeed. Those Civilians, AND Police Officers were very lucky to have a dealer right around the corner. I'm Pro firearms. I come from the High Sierras, my family has hunted for winter stocks for many years. It seems California is stomping on us more and more every year. We had to put an old 22 Marlin stock on a 9mm rifle we had because the original stock became "illegal", then they banned any kind of rifle in California that had more than a 10 round magazine is prohibited to sell in California.
Pm'd as to not go so far off this topic.
He didnt talk about him being a sniper? ITS A MIRACLE!
-
Why do you have to start stuff man?
-
Indeed. Those Civilians, AND Police Officers were very lucky to have a dealer right around the corner. I'm Pro firearms. I come from the High Sierras, my family has hunted for winter stocks for many years. It seems California is stomping on us more and more every year. We had to put an old 22 Marlin stock on a 9mm rifle we had because the original stock became "illegal", then they banned any kind of rifle in California that had more than a 10 round magazine is prohibited to sell in California.
Pm'd as to not go so far off this topic.
He didnt talk about him being a sniper? ITS A MIRACLE!
+1
-
Since when is it bad to have someone talk about what they have done for years and years? Especially when said someone has saved countless lives and protected yours.
-
.
-
Since when is it bad to have someone talk about what they have done for years and years? Especially when said someone has saved countles
lives and protected yours.
(along with other c*** riding teenagers that only talk smack) doesn't care about soldiers lives. They care about gaming, popping pimples, and finding themselves.
You're not a very nice GI Joe are you? I think I like Snake Eyes better. Honestly, I have no idea why everybody gets so pissed off at you all the time. I for one, don't mind that you talk about your war history. However, to other people, it can sound like bragging, and when somebody brags far too much, it seems like they're trying to make themselves sound cooler than they really are. Which can annoy some people. Sometimes, it can come off as if you think you are better than others, which is only true in some cases. You are not better than everybody.
I know people who went through the military. They never talk about it unless people ask them about it. Not because nothing happened or anything like that, but because they're respectful, and they know that they don't need to talk about how amazing the military is.
Sorry, but that line up there got me riled up.
As to not go off topic too much: I think that SB1315 needs to be shut down, and it probably will before it gets enacted as a law. Any lawmaker in their right mind would know that airsoft is not a threat to anything, and coloring the guns brightly colored will not change anything.
Sorry for the long post.
-
Wulf, Pm'd
-
Amazed that the paintball industry had the money to get this passed through, but the airsoft people didnt do anything about it.
I mean, it literally bans everything except paintballs, if no one else did the math it bans everything under 16mm, and paintballs are, yup, 17.27mm.
Such blatant lobbying is sickening.
-
Amazed that the paintball industry had the money to get this passed through, but the airsoft people didnt do anything about it.
I mean, it literally bans everything except paintballs, if no one else did the math it bans everything under 16mm, and paintballs are, yup, 17.27mm.
Such blatant lobbying is sickening.
I'm disgusted by that. I had a replica paintball marker that looks comparable to an airsoft replicated rifle (Minus a hopper).
-
Reading Senator De León's record is the stereotypical latino democrat who loves tyranny and oppression. He'll ninny over airsoft guns and "cop killer bullets" but will gladly let the big banks rape and pillage the populace with bullshit carbon taxes, and he'll gladly bankrupt his state by handing out welfare to illegal aliens.
Disarming the public is the typical ploy of a tyrant. Airsoft and other "imitation firearms" is good for teenagers because it is a good introduction to the real steel for when they get older, and that's why this dirtbag wants to ban them. It's hard to defend yourself from the welfare dependent scum that vote for his kind with their fake voter IDs or lack there of. These tyrants see us hard working folk as milkcows for their hoard of welfare dependent scum to leach off of which creates class division.
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates" -Tacitus
-
Reading Senator De León's record is the stereotypical latino democrat who loves tyranny and oppression. He'll ninny over airsoft guns and "cop killer bullets" but will gladly let the big banks rape and pillage the populace with bullshit carbon taxes, and he'll gladly bankrupt his state by handing out welfare to illegal aliens.
Disarming the public is the typical ploy of a tyrant. Airsoft and other "imitation firearms" is good for teenagers because it is a good introduction to the real steel for when they get older, and that's why this dirtbag wants to ban them. It's hard to defend yourself from the welfare dependent scum that vote for his kind with their fake voter IDs or lack there of. These tyrants see us hard working folk as milkcows for their hoard of welfare dependent scum to leach off of which creates class division.
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates" -Tacitus
My good man, your words are spot on!
-
Since when is it bad to have someone talk about what they have done for years and years? Especially when said someone has saved countles
lives and protected yours.
Because he is a Xavier follower, plus he's 17, he (along with other c*** riding teenagers that only talk smack) doesn't care about soldiers lives. They care about gaming, popping pimples, and finding themselves.
Btw, I was a sniper. And i'm proud to have saved the lives of Staff Sergeant Glattfelter, Monroe, Spc Doherty, Bunt, and Pvt Lay. And lost my friend PVT Dickison because I missed one, so f**# you Punk.
Your above post is why you are developing such a PP reputation on AA, and by the way your Mother must be very proud of the language you spew, again maybe you were never taught better...
It appears that you may have served 4 years in the service of your country by your tag, do you have a GD, I tried to help you by PMing you and trying to help you privately a while back, so you don't like the Marines as you told me, SO WHAT...
There are a lot of people that read this forum and it appears that you are a wanna be RAMBO, not what AA is about, there are many of those on this list and that read this list that have served quietly and for the good of the country, we have no need to impress anyone with our service record many see you as A CHEST POUNDING BRAGGERT KID get smart or go play your games some where else MINI Rambo...
You fail to mention that anyone ever fought for or saved your sorry A**
-
I swear threads are being derailed on AA way too frequently now adays :-\
-
All apologies that not every person is passive. Also, every past military man that I know, boast about their military past. Good and bad. My father, a Retired Gunnery Sergeant of the U.S. Marines boasts every day. It's called pride in what you do. As I told Xavier, if you don't flippin like it, don't read my post. It's all very simple.
-
I swear threads are being derailed on AA way too frequently now adays :-\
You are right and I was one of the ones that did it, back on track, the laws such as this AS law in California frequently do impact AZ in a negative way...
What is happening in AZ, Phoenix in fact is that the police dept is having issues with people carrying AS guns openly on the streets, this may be happening in other AZ cities, however I am privy to what is happening in Phoenix...
Have no doubt that that will bring attention to the AZ AS scene, get a few legislators involved or have a shooting incident and we will be in the same situation as California...
-
I swear threads are being derailed on AA way too frequently now adays :-\
You are right and I was one of the ones that did it, back on track, the laws such as this AS law in California frequently do impact AZ in a negative way...
What is happening in AZ, Phoenix in fact is that the police dept is having issues with people carrying AS guns openly on the streets, this may be happening in other AZ cities, however I am privy to what is happening in Phoenix...
Wow, I was not aware of this. Who in their right mind would carry any firearm, real or imitation within city limits to where citizens can see them? It doesn't matter if they were painted a bright color, for a citizen walking down the street seeing something like this (which is out of the ordinary) would freak them out and potentially cause a lot of problems down the road.
-
I swear threads are being derailed on AA way too frequently now adays :-\
You are right and I was one of the ones that did it, back on track, the laws such as this AS law in California frequently do impact AZ in a negative way...
What is happening in AZ, Phoenix in fact is that the police dept is having issues with people carrying AS guns openly on the streets, this may be happening in other AZ cities, however I am privy to what is happening in Phoenix...
Wow, I was not aware of this. Who in their right mind would carry any firearm, real or imitation within city limits to where citizens can see them? It doesn't matter if they were painted a bright color, for a citizen walking down the street seeing something like this (which is out of the ordinary) would freak them out and potentially cause a lot of problems down the road.
See, my question is, in a state where it's perfectly legal for any non-felon over the age of... 14(?) to open carry a pistol, why is this a problem?
-
See, my question is, in a state where it's perfectly legal for any non-felon over the age of... 14(?) to open carry a pistol, why is this a problem?
What does the average common citizen think when they see a teenager with a pistol hanging off their side?
1: What teenager, or anyone other than a police officer ever have a pistol holstered on their side? I have seen none.
2: These people carrying airsoft weapons (which was stated they were carrying them, not holstered) within city limits, why is this a problem? how would that not be a problem?
You take a set of teenagers who are skaters, this set starts harassing people and making a bad name for another set of skaters who keep to themselves. Point being, a stereotype is now formed.
What "14" year old needs (really) to carry any form of weapon such as a firearm. In my opinion a 14 year old should not be carrying any firearm within city limits.
-
I swear threads are being derailed on AA way too frequently now adays :-\
You are right and I was one of the ones that did it, back on track, the laws such as this AS law in California frequently do impact AZ in a negative way...
What is happening in AZ, Phoenix in fact is that the police dept is having issues with people carrying AS guns openly on the streets, this may be happening in other AZ cities, however I am privy to what is happening in Phoenix...
Wow, I was not aware of this. Who in their right mind would carry any firearm, real or imitation within city limits to where citizens can see them? It doesn't matter if they were painted a bright color, for a citizen walking down the street seeing something like this (which is out of the ordinary) would freak them out and potentially cause a lot of problems down the road.
obviously way more than you think. have you ever tried caring a USP concealed or for that matter any full size pistol, it isnt that easy.
-
See, my question is, in a state where it's perfectly legal for any non-felon over the age of... 14(?) to open carry a pistol, why is this a problem?
What does the average common citizen think when they see a teenager with a pistol hanging off their side?
1: What teenager, or anyone other than a police officer ever have a pistol holstered on their side? I have seen none.
2: These people carrying airsoft weapons (which was stated they were carrying them, not holstered) within city limits, why is this a problem? how would that not be a problem?
You take a set of teenagers who are skaters, this set starts harassing people and making a bad name for another set of skaters who keep to themselves. Point being, a stereotype is now formed.
What "14" year old needs (really) to carry any form of weapon such as a firearm. In my opinion a 14 year old should not be carrying any firearm within city limits.
My point is they're not doing anything illegal, and if the guns were real it still wouldn't be illegal, so why are the cops having a "big problem" with this? Hoplophobic screeching idiot soccer moms need to get used to this and stop being screeching idiot hoplophobes, and the only way to get used to something like this is through exposure. So believe it or not, this is a good thing. I'm not even going to argue the point of good idea/bad idea, no. The point I'm trying to make is that they're not doing anything wrong and they don't even look like they're doing anything wrong, so why are the cops harassing them.
-
My point is they're not doing anything illegal, and if the guns were real it still wouldn't be illegal, so why are the cops having a "big problem" with this? Hoplophobic screeching idiot soccer moms need to get used to this and stop being screeching idiot hoplophobes, and the only way to get used to something like this is through exposure. So believe it or not, this is a good thing. I'm not even going to argue the point of good idea/bad idea, no. The point I'm trying to make is that they're not doing anything wrong and they don't even look like they're doing anything wrong, so why are the cops harassing them.
I agree whole heartily. But the likeliness of the soccer mom getting used to that is a long shot, they're programmed to see firearms in public as bad due to gangs, robbing, news, war, blah blah blah. In order for them to get used to it, they would have to be deprogrammed (like training a dog not to chase after the mailman [dogs having more sense than a soccer mom too]) and that is also next to nil.
-
The fact is that open carry in AZ is 18 YOA up, not 14 YOA...
Their are ISSUES in Phoenix with stupid displays of AS open carry by kids ect, someone on AA decided to change it to "so why are the cops having a "big problem" with this?"
Phx PD has more important things to do that follow up calls of, looks like kids with guns, whether it be from soccer Moms or any other concerened citizen that does have the right to question the fact that it may appear that someone is doing something STUPID with what appears to be a weapon...
I can't for the life of me help but wonder why the members of AA will argue about rights rather than teach these kids, California laws will be here soon enough if everyone keeps acting in a child like manner regarding this, we should have the GUTS to help police our own community...
Bye the Bye an individual was recently stopped on a public well traveled street in the valley while riding his motorcycle with the barrel of his AS M4 sticking out of his back pack, LEGAL YES, STUPID YES...
I for one do not want to stroll down the street wearing a shirt that says "I Am With Stupid" with someone that is under 18 YOA waving his AS gun around and have someone call it in...
One might want to remember
"This is My Weapon, This is My Gun One is For Work, One is for Fun"
My AS Guns are for fun until some one comes along and screws it all up because kids demand rights rather than work for those rights as many of the AA listers have done...
-
I wanted to jump in the conversation about the Open-Carry laws and the problems they cause real quick. I am the son of a Police Sergeant and I know five police officers, all in Mesa. The Open-Carry laws (as I follow them) are that you can open-carry any weapon if you are over the age of 18, and concealed carry (WITHOUT A PERMIT) at 21. I may be wrong, but what I do know, is that since the Aurora incident, everybody in Mesa calls the cops on people who are open-carrying, especially near movie theaters. This is a huge inconvenience to the police officers, as the person Open-Carrying is doing nothing whatsoever wrong. The police cannot do anything about it, except for waste time and manpower to go talk to the person, look at the weapon, and annoy the person, because there was no crime committed. And this happens daily in Mesa. I don't understand why.
Just wanted to throw that in,
Thanks
-
Wulf, you are correct in your age limits there..... Also I read the previous posts about open carrying and was very confused until I realized AS stood for AirSoft..... lol......
I still stick to my opinion that airsoft replicas must be treated like real weapons when not on the field. That means no 14 year old kids walking down the street with M-4s strapped to their backs. That also means that if you're over 18, you can open carry your replicas anywhere you can carry an actual firearm. My thoughts.
And about training the public to not fear guns, well the only way is though education and exposure. Personally I think I'll stick to concealing, just because getting stopped is always a pain in the ass. I have no problem with open carry though, and although my friend successfully conceal carries a full framed .45 XD, I think I'd rather open carry a gun that large.
Either way, the People's Republik of Kalifornia is practically it's own country with the amount of unconstitutional laws it passes.
-
What is happening in AZ, Phoenix in fact is that the police dept is having issues with people carrying AS guns openly on the streets, this may be happening in other AZ cities
I can name a few in specific on these boards who carry airsoft replica pistols on their hip everywhere... Mainly because they are a felon and not allow to carry or own real steal..... All that comes to my mind is Darwin.
-
Wulf, you are correct in your age limits there.....
airsoft replicas must be treated like real weapons when not on the field.
That means no 14 year old kids walking down the street with M-4s strapped to their backs. That also means that if you're over 18, you can open carry your replicas anywhere you can carry an actual firearm.
I completely agree on everything you just said.
-
Carrying a replica of a firearm is useless and just draws unwanted attention. Looks bad upon the open carry crowd as well if a bunch of kids under eighteen are carrying. Just wait until you get your first mwag call and try explaining that to a Leo.
-
I personally have no problem with open carry, but myself will probably never partake in it for daily outtings, as from a tactical and personal defense standpoint it makes no sense. Why give away your advantage (as well as the element of surprise) to the bad guy right from the start? Additionally, it may make you the prime target if, say, you're in a shop and a couple thugs bust in to rob the place.
As far as carrying airsoft replicas on your person in public; THERE IS NO POINT NOR ANY GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER TO EVER DO SO, NO MATTER YOUR AGE OR 'FELONY' STATUS. This applies to carrying one open or concealed. Ultimately, airsoft guns are TOYS, and should not in any way be flaunted as a real firearm. It is not a real weapon, do not treat it like one. Do not carry it on your person like one in public. Do not conceal-carry one in the hopes of using it as a deterrant (because if you pull it as a deterrant and the criminal persists anyways, you're left SOL). Keep it in a case when you are anywhere but a sanctioned airsoft field. End of discussion.
As to the people saying Commieifornia's laws might possibly bleed over to AZ; that will NEVER happen. One thing I love about Arizona is that we do our own thing, regardless of what other states (or even the federal government most of the time) think about it [most recent example; Jan Brewer's policy on 'Deferred Action' recipeints]. Especially with our difference in firearms laws, AZ would be the LAST state to adpot ANY of Commiefornia's legislature.
-
I'm not so worried as much about their laws being migrated to us. I'm more worried about the impact it will have on the Airsoft community in the USA if 50+ percent of airsoft supplies are all of the sudden gone.
-
I'm not so worried as much about their laws being migrated to us. I'm more worried about the impact it will have on the Airsoft community in the USA if 50+ percent of airsoft supplies are all of the sudden gone.
Agreed
-
What day does the governer sign or veto this bill? Has he given any sign if he is for or against this bill yet?
-
this is getting way out of hand not to mention there already thinking of felony's to charge people with airsoft guns in cali. I wonder if we are really becoming a empire. also maybe this b a good time to call are leaders. to perhaps convince the airsoft industry to come too Arizona via tax cuts and other economic aid.
-
this is getting way out of hand not to mention there already thinking of felony's to charge people with airsoft guns in cali. I wonder if we are really becoming a empire. also maybe this b a good time to call are leaders. to perhaps convince the airsoft industry to come too Arizona via tax cuts and other economic aid.
Tax cuts? There's only a 1.872% difference between the California/Arizona Corporate Income Tax bracket, if they were to move somewhere to get a "Tax Cut" they mine as well go to Arkansas or even S.D. The only good thing that it would do is both California and Arizona are a fixed bracket; Meaning if your company makes > $0 you would pay the same as if you made > $50,000
-
I'm not so worried as much about their laws being migrated to us. I'm more worried about the impact it will have on the Airsoft community in the USA if 50+ percent of airsoft supplies are all of the sudden gone.
Actually looking through a record of all my airsoft orders, your statement becomes more poignant. Even though I have a number of online stores that I go to besides the CA based ones, there are a lot of things they can never do. I will miss the selection and the speed with which they ship orders for sure, I will definitely need to plan ahead farther in advance and shop around more. With all the talk of taxes, I'm surprised that California doesn't just put something like a luxury tax on airsoft products, not that I really want it, but I think its much more preferable to outright banning of all airsoft products within California state lines.
-
It'll become like the old days, where I used to order all my stuff thru den trinity, WGC, and redwolf. They can ban all they want, the sport will live on.
-
It'll become like the old days, where I used to order all my stuff thru den trinity, WGC, and redwolf. They can ban all they want, the sport will live on.
Until its illegal here... its possible.
-
Until its illegal here... its possible.
I doubt it, Arizona hasn't passed a law on airsoft yet, so I don't know why they would ban it ever. Arizona expresses the 2nd amendment to the fullest extent with every type of weapon. I think we'll be okay.
-
It'll become like the old days, where I used to order all my stuff thru den trinity, WGC, and redwolf. They can ban all they want, the sport will live on.
I can almost imagine California being fascist enough to have agents sit at the shipping centers and sort through the mail, looking for packages from known overseas airsoft retailers, and confiscating them.
-
this doesnt surprise me, its just how the CA govt. operates. Will this affect us in terms of supply? Yeah for a while it will, atleast until the retailers can get everything moved over to states like texas. however Im not worried about the law itself here in AZ, when it comes to anything firearms related, we usually do the exact opposite of our northern cousin.
-
when it comes to anything firearms related, we usually do the exact opposite of our northern cousin.
Western. :)
-
alright how many days we got left cause as far as i can tell the gov has not signed that bill into play. and if dose not sign in 8 days. IT gose back for a second round of talks and edits and other legal crap. am i correct ??
-
when it comes to anything firearms related, we usually do the exact opposite of our northern cousin.
Western. :)
haha yeah same difference.
The sad truth is even if this bill does get stopped, theyll just try again later on down the road. Its like trying to convince a communist that they are wrong, you might be able to win a few arguments but in the end you just have to smack them upside the head, tape thier mouth shut and make them watch red dawn haha.