Author Topic: Wow.....  (Read 1781 times)

Offline chris

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Wow.....
« on: July 27, 2007, 01:04:48 PM »
Turned on the news a few minutes ago and found out their was a helocopter crash. Channel 3 News and CHannel 15 News Crashed into one another. The funny thing is that they were both following a car chase I believe.

WHat are the odds of that happening???'

Watching it further they have found 3 confirmed fatalities.....

Pray for their families
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by chris »


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Offline XavierMace

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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2007, 01:08:46 PM »
It happened about 2 miles from my office....

As close as they were flying, the odds were pretty good.  To make it worse, the guy the police were chasing escaped because they had to break off pursuit because of the choppers...

The Channel 12 chopper backed WAYYYYYYY off once this happened.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by XavierMace »

Offline deathbydanish

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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2007, 01:26:21 PM »
That's terrible news  :(

I see the news choppers hovering around my area maybe like once every three months.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by deathbydanish »
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Offline Camx

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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2007, 01:45:16 PM »
Yeah pretty crazy. I was just there where they crashed the other day. 7th street and Indian school. Of all the things to crash into they were lucky they landed in a park.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Camx »

Offline extremist

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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2007, 01:55:39 PM »
yeah i was wathcing channel 15 and the camera just went black and we swithched over to 12 and said exactly what happened [smilie=armata_pdt_09.gif]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by extremist »
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Offline LaserRacer

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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2007, 02:15:02 PM »
Not to sound like a prick or anything, but it's amazing this doesn't happen more often. From an accident investigation perspective, this is a cut and dry accident.

Accidents like this are also fairly common in SAR missions. The problem is that the pilot starts to focus in on the "action" and forgets that his ONLY job is to fly the aircraft.

My guess is that the cameraman on one of the helicopters was getting agitated because he wasn't getting the shot he wanted and told the pilot to move the aircraft. The pilot made the maneuver without checking for other aircraft and flew right into it.

Due to the public nature of this accident, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FAA started prohibiting news helicopters from overflying LEO actions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by LaserRacer »
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Offline Doc Hollywood

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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 02:35:56 PM »
Quote from: "LaserRacer"
Not to sound like a prick or anything, but it's amazing this doesn't happen more often. From an accident investigation perspective, this is a cut and dry accident.

Accidents like this are also fairly common in SAR missions. The problem is that the pilot starts to focus in on the "action" and forgets that his ONLY job is to fly the aircraft.

My guess is that the cameraman on one of the helicopters was getting agitated because he wasn't getting the shot he wanted and told the pilot to move the aircraft. The pilot made the maneuver without checking for other aircraft and flew right into it.

Due to the public nature of this accident, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FAA started prohibiting news helicopters from overflying LEO actions.


Not that any of us know the specific facts here yet....

but this incident is exactly why the Civil Air Patrol organizes its mission aircrew in the way it does - the pilot does NOTHING but fly the airplane and he flys it EXACTLY where he is told to fly it by the Observer in the right seat....

On to the FAA issues here... there are minimum seperation distances that these news guys violate ALL THE TIME - all in the spirit of getting the best story....

This incident should never have happened.

The FIRST rule about flying is: FLY the fucking airplane.

Condolences to the family and loved ones of those lost and I hope that something preventive comes from this incident....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Doc Hollywood »

Offline XavierMace

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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 03:50:29 PM »
Quote
Not that any of us know the specific facts here yet....


I saw it happen....

The one pilot was more concerned about his surroundings and the action going on then flying his chopper.  He flew right into the other chopper.  The only good part was the fact that they managed to crash into the park.  With the number of high rises and the amount of traffic around here it could have been MUCH worse.  They were all too close (speaking from my point of view from our building, I don't know what the regulations are) and the one wasn't satisfied watching from a distance.  He was jockeying for position and collided.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by XavierMace »

Offline LaserRacer

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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 04:34:11 PM »
Quote from: "Doc Hollywood"
Quote from: "LaserRacer"
Not to sound like a prick or anything, but it's amazing this doesn't happen more often. From an accident investigation perspective, this is a cut and dry accident.

Accidents like this are also fairly common in SAR missions. The problem is that the pilot starts to focus in on the "action" and forgets that his ONLY job is to fly the aircraft.

My guess is that the cameraman on one of the helicopters was getting agitated because he wasn't getting the shot he wanted and told the pilot to move the aircraft. The pilot made the maneuver without checking for other aircraft and flew right into it.

Due to the public nature of this accident, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FAA started prohibiting news helicopters from overflying LEO actions.

Not that any of us know the specific facts here yet....

but this incident is exactly why the Civil Air Patrol organizes its mission aircrew in the way it does - the pilot does NOTHING but fly the airplane and he flies it EXACTLY where he is told to fly it by the Observer in the right seat....

On to the FAA issues here... there are minimum separation distances that these news guys violate ALL THE TIME - all in the spirit of getting the best story....

This incident should never have happened.

The FIRST rule about flying is: FLY the fucking airplane.

Condolences to the family and loved ones of those lost and I hope that something preventive comes from this incident....


You nailed it! ALWAYS FLY THE AIRPLANE!

As far as the FAA is concerned, there are waivers you can get to fly within the separation minimums (you can get a waiver to violate pretty much any FAR) HOWEVER, I have no idea what the minimums are for rotary winged operations.

I was recently in a class taught by coastie who flew lots of SAR hops as an observer in a C-130. We spent over a week discussing this issue. Apparently, the way the Coast Guard does it, the pilot flies the plane in his search pattern and will only deviate at the request of an observer. The observer then directs the pilot where to fly in order to get a better look at the target. The pilot DOES NOT look at the target. His ONLY mission is terrain/collision avoidance and FLYING THE AIRCRAFT!

This accident again emphasizes that aircraft are much like firearms. They are perfectly safe as long as they are respected. However, complacency mixed with flying WILL kill you eventually.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by LaserRacer »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2007, 06:40:40 PM »
I heard on the radio that one of the helicopters was experiencing a mechanical problem and dropped altitude pretty quickly, and when he pulled up to recover he ran into the bottom of the 2nd  helicopter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline XavierMace

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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2007, 01:56:47 AM »
Ehhh, it's possible but it didn't appear that way.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by XavierMace »

Offline GUNFIGHTER6

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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2007, 02:05:39 AM »
It's weird how Police Departments have policies that require ground units to pull back if a chase gets too out of control in the name of safety, yet news agencies don't.  This is certainly a tragic incident for all those involved, but it could have been catastrophic.

From what I read at azcentral.com, the police want to charge the suspect with deaths of all those in the helicopters.  They'll probably try to apply the felony murder rule.  I just don't agree with that.  Don't get me wrong I think the guy should spend a long time in prison, but I don't see how he was responsible for two aircraft in mid-air.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by GUNFIGHTER6 »

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Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2007, 08:00:06 AM »
Quote from: "GUNFIGHTER6"
It's weird how Police Departments have policies that require ground units to pull back if a chase gets too out of control in the name of safety, yet news agencies don't.  This is certainly a tragic incident for all those involved, but it could have been catastrophic.

From what I read at azcentral.com, the police want to charge the suspect with deaths of all those in the helicopters.  They'll probably try to apply the felony murder rule.  I just don't agree with that.  Don't get me wrong I think the guy should spend a long time in prison, but I don't see how he was responsible for two aircraft in mid-air.


I agree with you, I doubt the DA could even get an indictment for any homicide/manslaughter related charges.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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Offline Doc Hollywood

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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2007, 10:02:12 AM »
The felony murder rule could easily be used in this case; however the underlying charges will not qualify for the application of the FMR.

This guy was charged with Agg Assault which is merged into the elements of murder and by itself will not support the needed independant felony conviction.

Felony murder would apply if this guy had committed sex assault, kidnapping, arson, robbery, etc....    

Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Doc Hollywood »

Offline Native_Airsoft

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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2007, 10:14:22 AM »
Yea, that sucks.. This guy I airsofted with on that day knew one of the pilots  personally. That's sad.. RIP to them.

But, not to be a dick, and saying it nicely, how the hell does that happen though?.. Yea... I don't get it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Native_Airsoft »