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Offline TimW

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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2004, 10:33:10 PM »
I've seen nearly all the videos. I thought Kill Bill 1 was funny in its over-use of gore.  Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were walks in the park.  I was a criminology major who has looked at many many accident and homicide investigation pics and autopsies...while eating spaghetti for lunch.

Yet, the Eugene Armstrong video nearly made me lose my lunch.

It was the sound.  I can still hear it, and it's been nearly a week.  I've not seen any others since.

I think these videos should be seen by everyone....it will either reaffirm your support or opposition to the war.

But it WILL show you what the folks who we're fighting will do...what they think of human life.

So, will nuking the entire country help?  No.
Will leaving tomorrow help? No.
Will staying and occupying the country for years help? No.

Mostly because we don't appear to have widespread support of the locals. And without that, you got nothing.

They don't support us because they know, some day, we'll be gone. And the religious zealots will be back.  And they have long memories.

So, short of eradicating all muslim fundamentalists, just how DO you fight an enemy who has no fear of death...who, in fact, looks at death as an honorable way to fight?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TimW »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2004, 08:19:38 PM »
Tim, do you often find yourself compelled to watch actual snuff movies?  Even though I've personally seen many truly horrible sights (didn't have a choice really), I've never felt compelled to watch movies of actual carnage.

As far as the make believe stuff goes though, Kill Bill 2 kicked ass, lol.  I thought Kill Bill 1 sorta sucked butt.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »
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Offline shoule02

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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2004, 12:28:30 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TimW</i>
<br /><b>It was the sound.</b>  I can still hear it, and it's been nearly a week.  I've not seen any others since.

I think these videos should be seen by everyone....it will either reaffirm your support or opposition to the war.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

My thoughts (and feelings) exactly.  

Right now it doesn't matter why we went to Iraq in the first place, or if you supported the decision to invade, or if you think Islam is peaceful or otherwise.  The facts remain the same:  we started this war, we need to finish it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by shoule02 »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2004, 03:07:22 PM »
But at what cost are we willing to "finish it"?  And at what point have we "finished it"?  When all Iraqi's have become good little Republicans and Democrats?  Ain't ever gonna happen.  How many of your children are you willing to box up and plant in the ground in order to achieve an unachievable goal?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »
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Offline yellowmonkey

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« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2004, 10:19:04 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by leadmagnet</i>
<br />But at what cost are we willing to "finish it"?  And at what point have we "finished it"?  When all Iraqi's have become good little Republicans and Democrats?  Ain't ever gonna happen.  How many of your children are you willing to box up and plant in the ground in order to achieve an unachievable goal?

Lead
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You're right, it's too dangerous. We should just give up. We should have done the same thing in WWII. The Jews could have taken care of themselves.

Freedom is not free.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by yellowmonkey »
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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2004, 02:06:00 PM »
yellow.  in wwII, we didnt take out hitler, then occupy and control the country while the residents tried to kick us out.  

not a valid comparison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »
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Offline yellowmonkey

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« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2004, 09:19:40 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by leakingpen</i>
<br />yellow.  in wwII, we didnt take out hitler, then occupy and control the country while the residents tried to kick us out.  

not a valid comparison.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
We did try to "tak out" hitler... many times, by many methods. No we didn't occupy them, Russia did.
Maybe you didn't understand that I was being sarcastic. Pulling out of WWII would have been a mistake. Pulling out of Vietnam was a mistake. Pulling out of Iraq would be a mistake.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by yellowmonkey »
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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2004, 11:22:26 AM »
simply pulling out yes.  but we shouldnt be there to begin with, and a nice orderly withdrawl would be better than what we are doing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »
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Offline delta_echo

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« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2004, 12:12:12 PM »
Kind of like Vietnam? So we leave the country in turmoil, only so they can fall under oppression again? I think we'll make alot more enemies by pulling out at this point than staying and finishing the job. By pulling out, we also show the world that we are indecisive. A dangerous label in politics. I say now that we're there, we finish the job.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by delta_echo »
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Offline Harley

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« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2004, 12:29:14 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by leakingpen</i>
<br />yellow.  in wwII, we didnt take out hitler, then occupy and control the country while the residents tried to kick us out.  

not a valid comparison.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

We didn't?  Hmmm, wonder why we still have troops in Germany then?  Most of my friends that were stationed in Germany said that the Germans don't want us there.  Isn't that the same thing as trying to kick us out?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2004, 03:49:15 PM »
delta.  orderly.  an actual turnover of power.  it CAN be done.

harley.  we have german troops here in the us too.  whats your point?  thats a government level agreement, not a force.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »
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Offline Harley

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« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2004, 03:58:07 PM »
My point is that we DIDN'T just end the war and pull all our troops out.  We stayed, rebuilt the country and help to get things organized just like we're trying to do now in Iraq.  

German troops in the US are here for training, we do not have any German military bases in the US that I'm aware of?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline MicrowvbleTurtle

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« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2004, 11:59:34 PM »
From what I hear, several German anti-war groups protested to remove American bases from Germany.

To those that say Islam is a religion based upon murder:  have you looked at all other religions?  Every day, people kill in the name of their "God"(I'll be happy to give examples if needed)  But to single out the actions of one religion and state that they are bloodthirsty is stupid, and is one of the reasons why many do not like the United States.  

As for this quote, I couldn't agree more.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by shoule02</i>
My thoughts (and feelings) exactly.  

Right now it doesn't matter why we went to Iraq in the first place, or if you supported the decision to invade, or if you think Islam is peaceful or otherwise.  The facts remain the same:  we started this war, we need to finish it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by MicrowvbleTurtle »
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Offline KamikazeSM

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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2004, 01:16:32 AM »
A lot of people that kill in the name of their "god" (other than Islamic fundamentalists) can be termed as psychologically crazy, not just fanatical for their religion.  Such cases are statistically rare.  I would like examples of what you're referring to.  If it's fanatical "christians" that bomb abortion clinics, look at the numbers for actually how often that happens.  If you're talking about the crusades, that's history that was indeed very wrong and there's no sense in arguing that since we're talking about modern times here and not war, terrorism.  If you're referring to Bosnia/Croatia/Serbia, then you're also wrong as it is a conflict perpetuated by violence and corrupt leaders, most don't even know what they're fighting for anymore.  So, I would really like to see some examples of the violence of other religions that you're talking about.  As for Islam, more terrorist acts are committed by followers of allah.  I'm not going anywhere close to saying that all muslims are terrorists, but Islam has a substantially larger base of "fundamentalists" that do perpetuate such acts and based off of that, you can generalize* that the Islamic religion is more violent.

As for the quote, I agree: we're there and we need to finish what we started.

*Note that I said <i>generalize</i>, which by definition means that it is not always the case but can be said of a substantial portion of the population.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KamikazeSM »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2004, 01:45:38 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KamikazeSM</i>
<br />A lot of people that kill in the name of their "god" (other than Islamic fundamentalists) can be termed as psychologically crazy, not just fanatical for their religion.  Such cases are statistically rare.  I would like examples of what you're referring to.  If it's fanatical "christians" that bomb abortion clinics, look at the numbers for actually how often that happens.  If you're talking about the crusades, that's history that was indeed very wrong and there's no sense in arguing that since we're talking about modern times here and not war, terrorism.  If you're referring to Bosnia/Croatia/Serbia, then you're also wrong as it is a conflict perpetuated by violence and corrupt leaders, most don't even know what they're fighting for anymore.  So, I would really like to see some examples of the violence of other religions that you're talking about.  As for Islam, more terrorist acts are committed by followers of allah.  I'm not going anywhere close to saying that all muslims are terrorists, but Islam has a substantially larger base of "fundamentalists" that do perpetuate such acts and based off of that, you can generalize* that the Islamic religion is more violent.

As for the quote, I agree: we're there and we need to finish what we started.

*Note that I said <i>generalize</i>, which by definition means that it is not always the case but can be said of a substantial portion of the population.
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Over the last 200 plus years, the American Taliban have disenfranchised individuals and groups, broken apart family units and destroyed cultures, incarcerated and caused the deaths of millions of our citizens in order to impose their religious ideals and beliefs on our population and you have the audacity to tell us "Islam has a substantially larger base of fundamentalists that do perpetuate such acts and based off of that, you can generalize* that the Islamic religion is more violent"?!!!

Honestly, I think I shall vomit now.

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »
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