Author Topic: Danish cartoons and Muslim backlash  (Read 6120 times)

Offline andyhinds

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« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2006, 04:05:28 PM »
Quote from: "gixser13"
Religion is ...glue that hold humanity together.


+1

I know a lot of peopel that have turned their lives around by finding Religion, all types of religion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by andyhinds »

Offline busta_cap

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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2006, 04:16:16 PM »
I am Agnostic. DO you consider that a religion?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by busta_cap »

Offline azsarge

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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2006, 04:27:34 PM »
Quote from: "busta_cap"
I am Agnostic. DO you consider that a religion?


In a sense, yes.  It is a gathering of beliefs.

However, I think that the type of religion that Dave, Brian, and Andy speak of is the belief that something greater than you exists out there.  

I have also seen some people change their lives drastically due to religion.  In my opinion, it is simply because of a new lifestyle.  Christianity works, and can lead to some great life changes.  

As much as I'd like to give Islam and Muslims a chance, all I ever hear of the religion is it's ties to violence.  Violence against America and Americans.  

I'm sure others can chime in with better facts from the Bible, but I remember there, somewhere toward the end of the Bible, where a religious war is discsussed, and it leads to the End.

I don't see this "disagreement" between Christianity and Islam getting anything but much, much worse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »

Offline Ghostsequel

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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2006, 06:21:02 PM »
Quote from: "warlock"
I could actually posit that Jesus and Muhammed are the same person, but that is a theological discussion I'd not care to start here.

I'd throw in Buddha, too.  If you compare many of his teachings to Christ's (specifically how people should treat each other and how they should behave themselves), they're saying pretty much the same thing.

Quote from: "azmjs"
You sure they dont hate our, you know, foreign policy...

You mean our foreign policy of the past thousand years or so?  Tensions between the west and the middle east are nothing new, chief.  They didn't start when W got in.  Neither did terrorism.

Quote from: "busta_cap"
Religion is bullshit.
The End.
Stop fighting guys.

Wow.  What an intelligent, insightful post.

Quote from: "azsarge"
As much as I'd like to give Islam and Muslims a chance, all I ever hear of the religion is it's ties to violence. Violence against America and Americans.

Violence against more than America, I'm afraid.  Violence against us and all of our buddies, too.  Spain, Britain, Denmark, etc.  I know what you're talking about though.  Every time you turn on the tv, it's all about what new group of muslims are out to get us, or for what new reasons.  And surprisingly, you never hear much about 'moderate' muslims protesting what the extremists are doing.

Quote from: "azsarge"
I don't see this "disagreement" between Christianity and Islam getting anything but much, much worse.


Join the club.  I think what's going on right now is only the beginning.  It's obvious we're heading for a direct confrontation between the west and Islam. I don't think it has as much to do with christianity, necessarily.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ghostsequel »

Offline IcePlatinumSky

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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2006, 06:48:52 PM »
Quote from: "Patty o' Brian"
yes i know. and geuss what christians kill other christians too. i said that it is not in their nature. christians killed thousands because they wouldn't convert. muslims have never done this.


Realy I suppose that the several books in my closet are full of crap. You just dont hear about it. :x
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by IcePlatinumSky »

Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 07:09:04 PM »
Quote from: "azsarge"
Quote from: "busta_cap"
I am Agnostic. DO you consider that a religion?

As much as I'd like to give Islam and Muslims a chance, all I ever hear of the religion is it's ties to violence.  Violence against America and Americans.  


The reason we see so much of the Muslims on TV is because it is the "in" group right now in the American media. Hell, before 9-11, you would turn on the TV and only hear about what the IRA was doing. Oh, and by the way, they are (or were) Prostestant. Which, gasp, is a denomination of the Christian faith. Also, the Ku Klux Klan, at its roots, is essentially a white only, Protestant brotherhood. I would hardly say they are a passive Christian group.

All in all, every religion has its extremists. From Jihadists in Islam, to the Christian fanatics. Unfortunately, the media latches on to one group, portraying only the most horrific side of every situation because that is what people like to watch. America is a country ruled by fear, fear of neighbors, minorities, etc, and the media only propagates the belief.

PS-An agnostic is simply a person who acknowledges a higher being, but does not worship it, or follow any specific set of religious guidelines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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Offline busta_cap

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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2006, 08:02:02 PM »
Were you telling me or someone else what being agnostic means Cheeze?

I believe there must be some more devine power than mankind but I do not want to catch myself in any set religion or way, why do you ask? Because I have never really found a "religion" that completely suited me. Call me stupid, say I am going to hell, or where ever, but if a God of some sort does exist, and he is as forgiving and omniscent as he is to be spoken of, then good people of all religions,races, and whatnot will be rewarded with a happy afterlife..

I believe more in spirituality than religion...Spirituality is what brings people together, religion tears them apart.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by busta_cap »

Offline Patty o' Brian

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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2006, 08:44:40 PM »
us as human beings should follow basic principles like not to kill, steal, rape, ect.

why tie ourselves to a religion when we can do just as much good without it. if there is a god, he/she/it cant be mad at you for being a good person but not follow the mindless thousands.

i should probably shut up before i make a complete ass of myself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Patty o' Brian »

Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2006, 09:23:32 PM »
I agree with you both. Busta, I was just clarifying what an agnostic was for anyone that would like to know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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Offline Silverman

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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2006, 07:56:06 AM »
All religions are not the same.  You could make the case that Nazism was a religion - does that make it just as valid as all the others, and worthy of the same respect and tolerance?  (and this is actually a good example, since there are many similarities between Nazism and Islam).

Yes, most religions teach tolerance, peace, and generally being nice to other people.  Islam does not - it specifically teaches that torture and murder are encouraged against non-Muslims, and terrorism is part of its core teachings.  The Quran also teaches that Muslims should lie about Islam if that is required to gain more converts - something that hardly any other religion (except Scientology, of course) would teach.

Look at every country on Earth that has a large majority of Muslims - they are theocratic dictatorships with horrible human rights.  This is actually impossible to avoid - Islam was originally created as a way to take political control, and remains that way.  

This is not a "disagreement" between Christians and Muslims - especially since "Christian" nations are typically not ruled by their religious elite.  Many European nations have tried to appease Muslim countries, with disastrous results.  Muslims have been at war with non-Muslims since the creation of their "religion", and in order to remain Muslim must continue this war until there are no non-Muslims left.  Christianity has no such requirement that all non-believers must die.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Silverman »

Offline Daytr8er

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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2006, 10:12:19 AM »
The jihadists hate americans, because we (everyone that's not arab) are standing on arab soil and because we supply Israel with an endless stream of weapons and money.

So, what's the answer?

Quit helping Israel?

I bet they would only last maybe a year without our help, before palastine took over - no more Israel.

Completely leave the middle east?

Iran is a cunt hair away from having "the bomb" and their just itching to kill all of the jews, and who knows what else they have planned.

The United States is the only country with the balls to try to police the world, which means we have to stand on on arab soil and be involved in conflicts that were not started by us.

Damned if you do....damned if you don't

The rest of the world is still pissed at us for taking so long to get involved in WWII.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Daytr8er »
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Offline Victor3

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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2006, 10:37:40 AM »
Quote from: "warlock"
Quote from: "Patty o' Brian"
christianity, islam and judeaism all beleive in the same god. we all have our different main guys along the way, such as muhammed or jesus.

I could actually posit that Jesus and Muhammed are the same person, but that is a theological discussion I'd not care to start here.

Jesus and Muhammed are definately NOT the same person! Also Allah is not the same God as the Christians and Jews believe in.


Quote from: "Patty o' Brian"
yes i know. and geuss what christians kill other christians too. i said that it is not in their nature. christians killed thousands because they wouldn't convert. muslims have never done this.

The is a very incorrect statement. You need to read about what happens in other countries, tens of thousands of Christians are killed by Muslims around the world every year.



Quote from: "sNiPeRWoLf88"
Quote from: "Farslayer"
 They hate our God...

Allah=God.

It's just a different word.  As God is english for God, Allah is arabic for God.

Remember that Muslims accept both the Old and New Testament, plus obviously the Koran.  It would be kind of hard to hate a god that is a constant throughout all three sets of scriptures... don't you think?

And define 'they'.  If by they, you mean the extremists... yea, they pretty much hate all things american.  But if you mean anything besides extremists, then i urge you to re-think your statement.


Yes the words both mean God, but they are not the same God.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Victor3 »
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Offline Silverman

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« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2006, 12:04:14 PM »
Quote from: "sNiPeRWoLf88"
Allah=God.

It's just a different word.  As God is english for God, Allah is arabic for God.

"Allah" does not equal the Judeo-Christian God.  "al-Lah" was an Arabic moon goddess co-opted by Muhammed when he created his religion.

Quote from: "sNiPeRWoLf88"
Remember that Muslims accept both the Old and New Testament, plus obviously the Koran.  It would be kind of hard to hate a god that is a constant throughout all three sets of scriptures... don't you think?

Muslims do not accept the Old and New Testaments.  In most Christian countries they claim to do so, because lying about Islam to gain  acceptance is encouraged by the Quran.

Quote from: "Mohammad"
9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book [Muslim term for Jews and Christians], until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:30 And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of Allah,’ and the Christians say, ‘the Messiah is the son of Allah;’ that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. Allah's curse be on them!

5:17 They indeed have disbelieved who say, `Surely Allah - He is the Messiah, son of Mary.'  Say, `Who then has any power against Allah , if He desired to destroy the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother and all those that are in the earth?' And to Allah belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He creates what He pleases and Allah has power over all things.

Quote from: "sNiPeRWoLf88"
And define 'they'.  If by they, you mean the extremists... yea, they pretty much hate all things american.  But if you mean anything besides extremists, then i urge you to re-think your statement.

As for "they", all true Muslims must hate all non-Muslims.  To not do so is to break their own primary beliefs.  Allowing non-Muslims to live in harmony is, to a Muslim, the equivalent of a Christian worshipping pagan idols.  It's not even a "Muslim vs American" thing - it's a "Muslim vs all non-Muslims everywhere" thing.

Quote from: "Mohammad"
2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah  

8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them  

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:39 Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

(And many more - practically every chapter of the Quran has multiple verses devoted to smiting the unbelivers)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Silverman »

Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2006, 03:51:10 PM »
Quote from: "Silverman"
All religions are not the same.  You could make the case that Nazism was a religion - does that make it just as valid as all the others, and worthy of the same respect and tolerance?  (and this is actually a good example, since there are many similarities between Nazism and Islam).

Yes, most religions teach tolerance, peace, and generally being nice to other people.  Islam does not - it specifically teaches that torture and murder are encouraged against non-Muslims, and terrorism is part of its core teachings.  The Quran also teaches that Muslims should lie about Islam if that is required to gain more converts - something that hardly any other religion (except Scientology, of course) would teach.

Look at every country on Earth that has a large majority of Muslims - they are theocratic dictatorships with horrible human rights.  This is actually impossible to avoid - Islam was originally created as a way to take political control, and remains that way.  

This is not a "disagreement" between Christians and Muslims - especially since "Christian" nations are typically not ruled by their religious elite.  Many European nations have tried to appease Muslim countries, with disastrous results.  Muslims have been at war with non-Muslims since the creation of their "religion", and in order to remain Muslim must continue this war until there are no non-Muslims left.  Christianity has no such requirement that all non-believers must die.


I would like to see someone make the case that Nazism is a religion. They followed no doctrine of faith, and had no written scriptures. Nazism is a combination of Nationalism, Socialism, and Fascism. Islam and Nazism are in no ways similiar at all.

Furthermore, not all Muslim dominated countries are violent. Have you looked into Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan, the UAE, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Syria? The only real extremist Muslim countries are Iran, and formerly Afghanistan. (Iraq did not have any Muslims that were warring with the "infidels").

Beyond the above, Islam is one of the most tolerant religions around. People who say Christianity is apparently forgot about the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the subjugation of the "savage" natives all over Africa, South America, Central America, North America, and the Caribbean.

I said it once, I'll say it again. The problem with the Americans is that all we see are the rioting Muslims, never do we see the moderate side of anything. Of all people, it seems that airsofters should understand that the media blows everything out of proportion and makes situations seem far worse than they actually are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2006, 03:56:39 PM »
Quote from: "Victor3"
Quote from: "Patty o' Brian"
yes i know. and geuss what christians kill other christians too. i said that it is not in their nature. christians killed thousands because they wouldn't convert. muslims have never done this.

The is a very incorrect statement. You need to read about what happens in other countries, tens of thousands of Christians are killed by Muslims around the world every year.


Actually, Patty is right. Christians brutally slaughtered thousands of people who refused to convert during the Inquisition. I will also point to the former IRA (Protestants), who were at war with the Irish Catholics. Again, these are both Christian denominations. Overall, I would have to say that Christianity is in fact the most intolerant of all religions. Oh, what evidence do you have to support that Muslims kill tens of thousands of Christians each year? I have never, ever heard of this mass slaughter you speak of.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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