I'm glad we never have to play with kids

[The Cartographer]

I agree that this could be a dangerous direction for airsoft to take.  I think that kids (read: under 17) should be allowed to own and use airsoft guns provided that:
a) their parents have taught them gun safety and know when and how these toys are going to be used
b) the kids don't play out in public

Once again, I believe that it comes down to the parents.  Either they are ignorant, or really don't care what their kids are doing.

Their are a lot of idiots in the world, and nothing short of nuclear winter will change that.  I think that rap music has nothing to do with it (even though I don't like it).  It's all about the person.  Either the person is responsible and mature or they aren't. Again it it comes down to how they were raised.  Obviously, kids like this can jepordize the sport through their ignorance and sometimes downright stupidity.  Should they be allowed to play airsoft? sure. Should they be responsible while doing it? yes, if they want to keep those plastic pea-shooters.

As far as the politicians wanting to ban airsoft, I'm not surprised.  I've never had much faith in people whose career is telling us what we can and can't do.

[Phreakish]

I disagree, IMO if you're under 18 your airsoft use should stem NO FARTHER than shooting targets, not at anyone else.  Turning 18 does nothing to most people, but at least at that point they are LEGALLY responsible for their actions and things are treated more seriously.  

Too often, and in too many places, I see small kids w/o a clue (or a caring parent) shoot at eachother (w/o eye protection), at peoples pets, houses, cars, etc.  Yelling at them only gets them to change their location, and so many young'uns these days could give a f'k less about what an adult says - they have NO respect and would sooner give you the finger than turn over their guns and tell you where they live so you could talk to their parents...

I had many bb guns, nerf guns, dart guns, etc growing up, but at NO point was I EVER allowed to shoot at another person, and if I even POINTED at another person the inside of my room would be all I'd ever see again.  It takes a certain level of maturity, RESPECT, understanding, and unCOMMON sense to play airsoft.  If yer under 18, shoot paper circles, turn 18 - be responsible, or go away and never touch a firearm OR replica again.

[Twitchy Konigkeit]

:shock:  wow....um....those kids are funny i love how they named the same gun like 6 diffrent names! and what is funnier is that they belive what the fps is like the kid thought his was near 300! that was my first gun the Sig P226 and its soo funny! and the counterstrike movment! OMG! i need to laugh like that wow! they are so afraid! and its like a struggle to pull back the slide! the kid tossed the cat too! there are kids like this near by that make people hate airsoft or never see the real side of it! i HATE THOSE KIDS!

[bruzer]

Im with phreakish on this one.  Perfect example: when we came down April 8th we were running some errands around town and saw a couple of kids playing BESIDE A BUSY STREET!!  This may have links to the parents but I still think that they shouldn't even be allowed to have them unless they are at a sanctioned arena.

[The Cartographer]

yeah i see what you mean.  what I was trying to say is that no matter what kind of hobby you do, their are always idiots that give it a bad name... I think that's what I meant to say but my mind isn't always there on a Monday after school.
My first airsoft gun was a spring Berretta 92.  All I used it for was target and soda can shooting.  If I was to EVER point it in the general direction of other people I'd be quaranteened to either my room or the garage.  yet, another guy I know would just wave the thing around in every direction totally disregarding safety of others.  The point is, people need to take responsibility for their actions whether they're 8 or 98.
It's sad that our society has become so ignorant and lazy that this responsibility thing is even an issue.

[Phreakish]

I agree, but as stated before, legal responsibility is what comes with age.  An 8 year old shoots me by 'accident' in the eye, and whos gonna pay? I'm blind forever because of the poor quality of parents and thus the poor quality child, I might see SOMETHING done, but not near enough IMO. Now a 22 yr old shoots my eye out, guess what? I have legal recourse.

Kids SHOULD be acquainted with guns, and know proper operation and safety, this is a MUST, but it must be done by a person who is also qualified, sadly; most parents lack this basic ability, let alone the ability to control a child in the first place.

I'm glad that there ARE those out there that are young and understand the responsibility AND have the maturity, but outside of a controlled environment, I'd trust those same folk no more than a 9 yr old with a bad attitude and a real weapon....  

I know all about morons giving good hobbies bad names - I'm an e-R/C flyer, and the typical Zippy (zagi hippie) give us all bad names - they show up with a case of beer and a plane that packs more kinetic punch than some pistol rounds, and fly around crowded parks 'buzzing' folks with planes that would be 100% lethal at those speeds - no RESPECT, which I guess is the lost basis of too many things these days.  No one cares, or wants to be the one to carry blame, so its always someone else's fault or someone else's problem, and as as result those that DO follow the rules pay the price for the morons that REFUSE even when they have the capability - AKA guys that'll go out in full gear and play airsoft w/o letting anyone know what they're doing or by intimidating by-standers or the police and then bitch and moan when they're punished - then the REST of us pay the price, despite organizing, keeping things away from the public eye and being SAFE.  Just ticks me off to no end.

[Doc Hollywood]

Not that I would know anything, but in the United States, the law provides that minors, who are engaging in traditionaly adult activities (driving, motorcycle racing, archery, sport shooting, oh - and airsoft) are not immune from tort claims.  A 6 year old was allowed to be sued for pulling the chair out from under his fat aunt's ass and his parents had to pay... but I digress...

short version - under 18 year olds can be sued for airsoft injuries and recovery taken from their parents who probably have something or some insurance.  Once they are 18 the parents are off the hook of course....

but then....

[Chinchilla_Man]

I'm not surprised this subject has come up again on the forums. :roll:

We can all agree here that airsoft isn't a kids game, this video being proof.
If I was shot by some kid, I wouldn't sue. I would press charges and make sure that kid spent time in juvenile detention for it. But suing can get the parents to actually care what their kids are doing. What a world.

[Phreakish]

Not that I would know anything, but in the United States, the law provides that minors, who are engaging in traditionaly adult activities (driving, motorcycle racing, archery, sport shooting, oh - and airsoft) are not immune from tort claims.  A 6 year old was allowed to be sued for pulling the chair out from under his fat aunt's ass and his parents had to pay... but I digress...

short version - under 18 year olds can be sued for airsoft injuries and recovery taken from their parents who probably have something or some insurance.  Once they are 18 the parents are off the hook of course....

but then....

well, like I said, there IS recourse, but generally not enough and the chances are far less likely that anything will come of the claim because 'he was only a kid'.  But thats not the major argument here

Kids + airsoft = trouble, no matter how its sliced up.

[warlock]

We can all agree here that airsoft isn't a kids game, this video being proof.

Not to Ricky-ize this discussion, but if I find a link to a KKK meeting, does that mean all Americans are white supremacist morons? The actions of a small portion of the population should not be indicative of the whole, ever. Stereotyping is the path to the darkside.

I think this video is indicative that airsoft is not a game to be played by the morons in the video.

[Phreakish]

We can all agree here that airsoft isn't a kids game, this video being proof.

Not to Ricky-ize this discussion, but if I find a link to a KKK meeting, does that mean all Americans are white supremacist morons? The actions of a small portion of the population should not be indicative of the whole, ever. Stereotyping is the path to the darkside.

I think this video is indicative that airsoft is not a game to be played by the morons in the video.

True, except that most of us know that MOST kids DO act this way.  Not all, but we have prior knowledge.  There are those that can play and be respectful and safe, they're just not in the majority.  One of the problems here is that the argument could be made that groups like us SHOULD permit the young ones to play, to show them how to play, how to be safe, and how to be repsectful - BUT - this isn't the case, because most 'kids' just wanna see how badly they can hurt their friend, or who can shoot who first, they dont want to play war games and be tactical or simulate anything other than what they think is so 'cool' in their video games.  The nice thing is that most kids stop playing after a while because they lose interest in shooting the same guy over and over, or getting welts with nothing to show for it.  Their lack of an attention-span (the same thing that drives them to new video games every month) is the only thing that'll keep these kids from pursuing the game any further, thank god.

I put this question to ya: have you ever seen a group of 10-20 younger kids get together and either build a fort, or find someplace to play and set up actual scenarios or strategies? Nope, its all about how many times you shoot the other guy, and if you hit him in the head or not - then the arguments about wether you've taken a hit or not, and then the eventual point-blank retaliation shot to the nads, the face, the head, whatever... Kids are just that, KIDS.  They can shoot targets and pop cans until they turn 18, unless in a CONTROLLED environment for which there are consequences if they stray from the rules.

[warlock]

True, except that most of us know that MOST kids DO act this way.  Not all, but we have prior knowledge.

Arguably, there are adults on the airsoft field who conduct themselves in a manner unfit for an adult

There are those that can play and be respectful and safe, they're just not in the majority.  One of the problems here is that the argument could be made that groups like us SHOULD permit the young ones to play, to show them how to play, how to be safe, and how to be repsectful - BUT - this isn't the case, because most 'kids' just wanna see how badly they can hurt their friend, or who can shoot who first, they dont want to play war games and be tactical or simulate anything other than what they think is so 'cool' in their video games.

Kids that think like that, who don't want mil-sim, very rarely show up at any of the local organized games. When they see what it's about and it isn't what they want, they go off and we usually never see them again (except maybe in a paintball round, paintball is uniquely geared towards that crowd)

The nice thing is that most kids stop playing after a while because they lose interest in shooting the same guy over and over, or getting welts with nothing to show for it.  Their lack of an attention-span (the same thing that drives them to new video games every month) is the only thing that'll keep these kids from pursuing the game any further, thank god.

Agreed.

I put this question to ya: have you ever seen a group of 10-20 younger kids get together and either build a fort, or find someplace to play and set up actual scenarios or strategies? Nope, its all about how many times you shoot the other guy, and if you hit him in the head or not - then the arguments about wether you've taken a hit or not, and then the eventual point-blank retaliation shot to the nads, the face, the head, whatever... Kids are just that, KIDS.  They can shoot targets and pop cans until they turn 18, unless in a CONTROLLED environment for which there are consequences if they stray from the rules.

Since I've been airsofting for over a decade at this point, and pretty much got the ball rolling on the airsoft community in Guam in my high school years, I can honestly say YES I've seen (and personally participated in) 20-30 kids setting up actual scenarios, strategies, building firebases, defending camp, etc.

It wasn't really a controlled environment, we did have the occassional spat (usually related to a boobytrap item in the field that someone felt was unfair or unsafe).

I will say this. From my point of view, Airsoft was originally primarily a kid's game where we could play soldier. This was not the case in Japan where it all started, however.. the adults started it there. But here in the US, I have seen it grow from kid's games to adult games, and the second the adults stepped in they pooh-pooh'ed the kids playing and started trying to justify why they shouldn't play. This is not the case in Japan, where it all started, however. Players who are immature are escorted off the field never to return. Players who can abide by the rules and honor the game are welcomed and appreciated. Age doesn't matter (you do have to be 12 to get into most fields in Japan) as much as maturity and an ability to respect the game and its rules. I hold to that same belief.

[Chinchilla_Man]

We can all agree here that airsoft isn't a kids game, this video being proof.

Not to Ricky-ize this discussion, but if I find a link to a KKK meeting, does that mean all Americans are white supremacist morons? The actions of a small portion of the population should not be indicative of the whole, ever. Stereotyping is the path to the darkside.

I think this video is indicative that airsoft is not a game to be played by the morons in the video.

Kids want friends, they want to fit in, right? To fit in you want impress the 'cool' crowd and generally those kids are the asshats and/or morons (how's that for a stereotypical generalization!).

Given that most kids want to fit in with the 'cool' crowd, therefore most kids are asshats and/or morons.

This is what happens in the public school system. (No offence to those of you that are in or where in public school, expect Busta.)

[Phreakish]

True, except that most of us know that MOST kids DO act this way.  Not all, but we have prior knowledge.

Arguably, there are adults on the airsoft field who conduct themselves in a manner unfit for an adult

There are those that can play and be respectful and safe, they're just not in the majority.  One of the problems here is that the argument could be made that groups like us SHOULD permit the young ones to play, to show them how to play, how to be safe, and how to be repsectful - BUT - this isn't the case, because most 'kids' just wanna see how badly they can hurt their friend, or who can shoot who first, they dont want to play war games and be tactical or simulate anything other than what they think is so 'cool' in their video games.

Kids that think like that, who don't want mil-sim, very rarely show up at any of the local organized games. When they see what it's about and it isn't what they want, they go off and we usually never see them again (except maybe in a paintball round, paintball is uniquely geared towards that crowd)

The nice thing is that most kids stop playing after a while because they lose interest in shooting the same guy over and over, or getting welts with nothing to show for it.  Their lack of an attention-span (the same thing that drives them to new video games every month) is the only thing that'll keep these kids from pursuing the game any further, thank god.

Agreed.

I put this question to ya: have you ever seen a group of 10-20 younger kids get together and either build a fort, or find someplace to play and set up actual scenarios or strategies? Nope, its all about how many times you shoot the other guy, and if you hit him in the head or not - then the arguments about wether you've taken a hit or not, and then the eventual point-blank retaliation shot to the nads, the face, the head, whatever... Kids are just that, KIDS.  They can shoot targets and pop cans until they turn 18, unless in a CONTROLLED environment for which there are consequences if they stray from the rules.

Since I've been airsofting for over a decade at this point, and pretty much got the ball rolling on the airsoft community in Guam in my high school years, I can honestly say YES I've seen (and personally participated in) 20-30 kids setting up actual scenarios, strategies, building firebases, defending camp, etc.

It wasn't really a controlled environment, we did have the occassional spat (usually related to a boobytrap item in the field that someone felt was unfair or unsafe).

I will say this. From my point of view, Airsoft was originally primarily a kid's game where we could play soldier. This was not the case in Japan where it all started, however.. the adults started it there. But here in the US, I have seen it grow from kid's games to adult games, and the second the adults stepped in they pooh-pooh'ed the kids playing and started trying to justify why they shouldn't play. This is not the case in Japan, where it all started, however. Players who are immature are escorted off the field never to return. Players who can abide by the rules and honor the game are welcomed and appreciated. Age doesn't matter (you do have to be 12 to get into most fields in Japan) as much as maturity and an ability to respect the game and its rules. I hold to that same belief.

I agree completely, and your arguments aren't far off the point I was trying to make, the fact is that the majority of kids that play, shouldn't.  Those that DO shouldn't be punished, and thats why we have exceptions to age limits at some of our games, except when liability is an issue.  The biggest problem is that 99% of the asshats that pick up springers at Big5 or WalMart are out to just get the hardest hitting, cheapest POS that'll make his friends bleed.  Those that DO want to get into milsim, and actual scenario playing WILL, and SHOULD, its not limited by age, but again, this is a controlled environment, as it should be.  But should minors be allowed at every game? certainly not.

I've never said that being an adult makes you fit to carry an airsoft gun, or real steel for that matter - I've seen many morons and asshats over 18 too but the majority that spend the $$ and get into the sport do it for a reason and conduct themselves accordingly.

[warlock]

Well put, I've got nothing to add.