M700 A.I.C.What?! *updated 01/29/10*

[busta_cap]

I have been tinkering around alot lately with both the tanaka m700 base and KJW m700 series. Both have their ups and downs. Right now I am having a local machine shop machine some custom parts for the project. My goal is to reach out as far as possible. Right now unless you upgrade a VSR-10 or APS2 to 600+ FPS, most can Only reach about 250-275ft accurately, at most. At this range, the spring and parts are under alot of pressure and are broken often. With a a gas gun, these problems are aleviated. Gas guns do have their downfall; they are affected by temperature which affects gas pressure, as well as smaller variations in seals and pressure.

Some things to Expect:

-Nitrogen or compressed air powered
-Remote 3000psi tank to dual regulator setup, adjustable up to 700fps or about 150psi.
-VSR10 barrel / hop up based with a PDI cold rolled steel 6.01 555mm inner barrel.
-Either a SCS hopup knub or custom knub
-Custom Delrin barrel spacers with o-rings to absorb vibration
-20-22in outer barrel
-custom 40mmx250mm suppressor w/ baffles and custom adapter built into outer barrel end cap.
-Maximum engagement distance around 450ft

Optics can be included or left out.

The thread is to gauge whether there is an interest locally for a piece like this. It will be an extremely affordable alternative to something like a Right Hook Fabrication rifle that start around $1200 and top out right around $2000.


EDIT: Thanks to whoever moved this.
Update 01/28/10

So in my quest to find a local machinist to build one off parts here and there I met a guy named Mike, Mike owns several business including a small machine shop..after getting to know him and getting some ideas of what things might cost..I asked him if he had ever taught anyone and he had..I offered my free apprenticeship services and he obliged. So for the last Month or so I have been watching, working and learning. I finally got to the point where I could make some crafty pieces on my own. And thus, the first piece I can post.

The job was for a custom m700 AICS. The Tanaka outer barrel is crap and is slam extruded by ramming it over a steel or iron rod.. After getting it back to spec I cut the barrel down to length(14.5in) then faced and cut the inside. I then created a 1.5mm 90* chamfer for the cap to sit against.

The cap was created from a round stock of T6-6061 and produce by hand tooling only. No CNC was used. First I drilled the inner barrel hole, then started making cuts and passes on the outer surfaces. Then I used the mill to cut the 14mm negative threading..This took about nine passes and some help from my mentor. next came outer reliefs for the O rings that would seat the cap into the outer barrel. The last part I had to wait for because I had to order a special relief tool for the inner reliefs. Once I got this I cut the inner reliefs for the inner barrel O rings.

The final product is within .0015 tolerances and a VERY tight fit into the outer barrel and inner barrel. This was done purposefully to avoid any movement or having to use barrel spacers.

I have not polished the end cap yet So tooling marks are still there, and the junk all over it is DOW 55, an oring lube/sweller.









Update 1/29/10




Finally got around to fitting it up. Very snug, no play what so ever with a 290mm suppressor. Usually I like to 'cold press' these types of pieces into place. For anyone unfamiliar with that process, you machine the pieces to the same spec, then freeze the piece going inside with liquid nitrogen and push it in..Once you get around 50 below, the pieces are there for good.

Update 2/18/10

Been working on some new magazine and trigger parts.

Chrono Results from the last few trials.


Stock trigger group/upgraded bolt/G&G magazine parts/303mm pdi 6.01/40psi HPA/Bioval .27 BBBMAX

Fps is measured in .27 weight.

332
339
334
329
334
330
322
338
340
333

Not bad but a pretty large spread.


Stainless cryo treated sear and trigger pieces/upgraded bolt/G&G magazine parts/303mm pdi 6.01/40psi HPA/Bioval .27 BBBMAX

Fps is measured in .27 weight.

352
353
355
355
350
352
354
352
355
350

Well that is a little better..

Stainless cryo treated sear and trigger pieces/upgraded bolt/custom magazine parts lubed with DOW 111/303mm pdi 6.01/40psi HPA/Bioval .27 BBBMAX

Fps is measured in .27 weight.

368
366
368
368
368
370
366
370
370
369.

Much, Much better.


Although cryo treating the trigger parts isn't needed, it seems to keep the consistency up quite a bit due to the hardness of the contact surfaces.

[Toast]

Busta are you thinking of building and selling these?
I have a Tananka M700 AICS that I am planning to build very similar to this.
I've done a ton of research and would be very curious to see your build process.

[busta_cap]

Busta are you thinking of building and selling these?
I have a Tananka M700 AICS that I am planning to build very similar to this.
I've done a ton of research and would be very curious to see your build process.

Yes, I am. There are some good parts out there for both guns but the problem is they are hard to find and very expensive. The KJW is actually a much better gun to start with for various reasons, but mostly the cost. Anything that isn't good gets replaced. All screws are replaced with steel screws, the plastic hopup housing chamber is replaced with a CNC'd aluminum one. The 2piece hopup unit is replaced with a single piece CNC'd part. One of the biggest complaints is the non free floating barrel system and the way it screws down on both the Tanaka and KJW. it sucks, and is extremely out of wack. My outer barrel will be a non taper, bull barrel that is steel. The locking nut will be altered and improved and the barrel will rest along a system of delrin spacers that can adjust minutely the direction of the outer barrel. Instead of pulling it down with the current system. I am really not really going to be doing this for a big profit, there is obviously labor and engineering design factored into the price. But again, very affordable. Toast, Shoot me a PM. We can get together about upgrading your Tanaka.

[Vince]

I will give you $100 if you can hit a man size target reliably at 150m.

[busta_cap]

I will give you $100 if you can hit a man size target reliably at 150m.

Define reliably? 7/10 ?

[busta_cap]

To give you an idea of the current accuracy, I can hit a man size target at 115yds (google earth distanced) about 7/10 times with only:

madbull 6.03
kingarms vsr-10 air seal chamber
otherwise stock kjw m700 on propane using madbull .36.

this is with the hopup OFF.

[Vince]

At what velocity?

[busta_cap]

At what velocity?

Right now? Not sure. I chrono'd the gun completely stock with .20's at gearbox and I think It was shooting about 580-620. I would assume now its probably right arund 600 with TB and airseal. hard to tell really.. But that is part of the beauty of an air rig, adjustable psi=fps

[Vince]

Yeah, I mean at velocities acceptable to use at an airsoft game.

[busta_cap]

Yeah, I mean at velocities acceptable to use at an airsoft game.

Well Yeah that is the goal. Once you get to a certain point, a fraction of a gram weight plastic bb is going to become completely erratic. I think most games allow up to 600fps(.2) and obviously a minimum engagement distance is required. I am not sure about national ops though....

[Vince]

I think most games allow up to 600fps(.2)

no

[busta_cap]

I think most games allow up to 600fps(.2)

no

What is the average now a days?

[Vince]

The same 500 FPS it always has been?

[busta_cap]

The same 500 FPS it always has been?

Well I see most of the games hosting now, its like 420 for aeg's. I would assume 550ish would be a safe number with a 100ft minimum distance.

Here is an idea of what a VSR-10 can do when it's shooting about 550. This guy also has vids from a vsr10 he upgraded to 820 but I talked to him and most of the videos are done at a safer FPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtgXkJFnyw


this kid's vsr 10 shoots 540fps and this is one of his videos, shooting 250'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbcvYollz1s

The other thing about the VSR-10 is that is only has a 555mm inner barrel.

[XavierMace]

The same 500 FPS it always has been?

Well I see most of the games hosting now, its like 420 for aeg's. I would assume 550ish would be a safe number with a 100ft minimum distance.

Here is an idea of what a VSR-10 can do when it's shooting about 550. This guy also has vids from a vsr10 he upgraded to 820 but I talked to him and most of the videos are done at a safer FPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtgXkJFnyw


this kid's vsr 10 shoots 540fps and this is one of his videos, shooting 250'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbcvYollz1s

The other thing about the VSR-10 is that is only has a 555mm inner barrel.

In regards the the first video...  I believe he was still shooting 620fps-ish when he did that video.  He's also done a metric crapton of DIY mods as well.  IMO, it's not worth the work he's put into it.  In regards to the second video that looked like they were being lobbed quite a bit.