High Speed/DSG Setup?

[kevindagee]

Looking into building another custom M4. I want it to be a high speed setup meaning I would like it to be 45+ RPS. I'm not sure what my base gun is as of now, but I'm thinking about a Combat Machine because they are fairly cheap and I've heard the polymer is very strong.

 So I've heard some good things about a DSG setup, and I've been thinking about getting the Siegetek Cyclone gear set. Now does anyone personally own these? Because I don't want to waste $115 on a set of gears when I can get something that is cheaper and performs the same.

 Also, if I do get the Siegetek Cyclone gears, what motor should I use? I would prefer not to use Systemas because they are overrated and I know I can get better for a lower price. Would it be appropriate to get the Lonex High Speed motor with the Siegetek Cyclone gears? Or would I be better off getting a high-torque motor?

 I know the Sigetek Cyclone gears can be pretty stressful, but I have a reinforced gearbox so it shouldn't be too bad. To handle all the stress, what bushings/bearings should I use? It has to be 8mm.

 Should I also upgrade anything else? I've been thinking of getting a nice MOSFET, if you could recommend any that would be great. I will be running a 9.6 NiHM battery for a while, but am planning on switching to A LiPO later.

 So if you guys could recommend anything for a high speed setup, that would be great. Also, the FPS has to be under 350 FPS and I would like this project to be under $350. Thanks and have a great day.

[nukeduster]

Are you looking for reliability?

DSG's are fun, but they are basically never reliable.

You can get 45 rps out of a SSG setup and have it be more reliable, but it still is pushing it. Its not worth getting a DSG unless you're pushing 50+ IMO.

Keep in mind, its a gearbox originally designed for ~12 rps @ 280fps. Plan for lots of replacement parts.

I'd stick with solid bushings, not bearings.

Also, "reinforced" means nothing: Its a marketing ploy, mostly. The parts that fail on DSG's and other high stress setups aren't reinforced (the front of the gearbox), only the weird random spots like the pockets for the gears, which you have to machine off anyways to fit siegetek gears. If you get a STS you'll be better in terms of reliability.

7075 Al CNC gearboxes are the closest we have to truly reinforced gearbox which is actually reinforced.

[kevindagee]

Are you looking for reliability?

DSG's are fun, but they are basically never reliable.

You can get 45 rps out of a SSG setup and have it be more reliable, but it still is pushing it. Its not worth getting a DSG unless you're pushing 50+ IMO.

Keep in mind, its a gearbox originally designed for ~12 rps @ 280fps. Plan for lots of replacement parts.

I'd stick with solid bushings, not bearings.

Also, "reinforced" means nothing: Its a marketing ploy, mostly. The parts that fail on DSG's and other high stress setups aren't reinforced (the front of the gearbox), only the weird random spots like the pockets for the gears, which you have to machine off anyways to fit siegetek gears. If you get a STS you'll be better in terms of reliability.

7075 Al CNC gearboxes are the closest we have to truly reinforced gearbox which is actually reinforced.

I mean, since I probably will be spending quite a bit of money on this, I might as well also look into reliability. Just wondering, what is the max RPS I will be able to achieve with a 9.6 NiHM? I know there are a lot of factors that contribute in this, but lets just say I get the Lonex High Speed motor, and an M100 spring, and everything else is stock. Do you think you could give me a little bit of an idea with that setup? It's a VFC gearbox that came from my VFC 416.

[nukeduster]

You won't be using a M100 spring with a DSG, you'll be using something like a M170.  A full-stroke aeg is 15 teeth, dsg's are only 8 teeth, so you have to use a much stiffer spring to achieve the same FPS. Plus you are limited to MAX 360mm barrel, with optimum being 300 or even shorter.

You want a high torque, not a high speed motor.

Depends on the discharge rate of the 9.6v. Is it a mini or large 4/5 battery? Dsg's are power hungry, you'll want an 11.1v lipo with at least 2000mah and a 25C discharge rate. You can do less, but it'll be inefficient and you'll basically be wasting your money and/or risking the battery unless you use a really torquey motor.

Using good mags that can keep up with the ROF are important too..

Theres so, so much that goes into the equation.

[kevindagee]

You won't be using a M100 spring with a DSG, you'll be using something like a M170.  A full-stroke aeg is 15 teeth, dsg's are only 8 teeth, so you have to use a much stiffer spring to achieve the same FPS. Plus you are limited to MAX 360mm barrel, with optimum being 300 or even shorter.

You want a high torque, not a high speed motor.

Depends on the discharge rate of the 9.6v. Is it a mini or large 4/5 battery? Dsg's are power hungry, you'll want an 11.1v lipo with at least 2000mah and a 25C discharge rate. You can do less, but it'll be inefficient and you'll basically be wasting your money and/or risking the battery unless you use a really torquey motor.

Using good mags that can keep up with the ROF are important too..

Theres so, so much that goes into the equation.

Well the thing is, the Siegetek Cyclone gears are meant to be used with springs M100 and lower. So if I use a higher spring would it mess up the gears? And you also said something about the SSG setup? I've heard about them but I'm not really sure how they work.

[Pride]

I've personally built one, and man it was a nightmare to keep up on. Only problem I really had was shredding disconnects left and right. My DSG setup at the time was a reinforced Classic Army gearbox, 8mm ball bearing ( i know i know..bearing are shit), 14:1 ratio (balanced ratio), SHS full metal rack piston and a bravo xcyclone motor.  I maxed around 50-55 bps, was neat for a time but it's hell to feed. And when running at high speeds you have to use .20's because the nozzle is moving at such a high speed and going on full auto with anything heavier caused feeding issues because its not as light. In all honesty I'd just build a normal AEG with a 13:1 gearset and a matrix high speed motor and go from there. And referring to nukedusters post about lipos, running anything lower just isn't really worth it. I ran a 11.1v 40-70c 1000mah lipolly, and it was just right. And loner flash mags are fantastic in keeping up, as well as Echo1 fat mags are great too.

[nukeduster]

You won't be using a M100 spring with a DSG, you'll be using something like a M170.  A full-stroke aeg is 15 teeth, dsg's are only 8 teeth, so you have to use a much stiffer spring to achieve the same FPS. Plus you are limited to MAX 360mm barrel, with optimum being 300 or even shorter.

You want a high torque, not a high speed motor.

Depends on the discharge rate of the 9.6v. Is it a mini or large 4/5 battery? Dsg's are power hungry, you'll want an 11.1v lipo with at least 2000mah and a 25C discharge rate. You can do less, but it'll be inefficient and you'll basically be wasting your money and/or risking the battery unless you use a really torquey motor.

Using good mags that can keep up with the ROF are important too..

Theres so, so much that goes into the equation.

Well the thing is, the Siegetek Cyclone gears are meant to be used with springs M100 and lower. So if I use a higher spring would it mess up the gears? And you also said something about the SSG setup? I've heard about them but I'm not really sure how they work.

Thats for liability purposes. If you use an M100 your piston will last about 5 shots and grenade itself. You'll be using between an m150-m210.