My Thoughts Regarding Minors in AA/Forums

[azsarge]

This was from the "Introduce Yourself" forum, and I thought it should have it's own topic so you all can discuss it and ask any questions/make any comments you see fit.  

It sums up how I feel about you kids.

azsarge we all arnt that stupid only the selcet few lol but yeah i see where ur coming from but maybe u would enjoy shooting me in the face  

Ok, let me get this straight for all of you who don't know me personally.

I have nothing against kids.  I was 13 once, not too long ago in fact, and remember exactly what its like.  I enjoy what they have to say and show them the respect they deserve.

However, I do not want to hang out with them, and I don't want to be friends with them.  I'm 23.  When I go out on Saturday night, it's not with kids.  When I go to work, it's not with kids.  When I go play airsoft, why would I want to play with kids?  It's not that their stupid, or that I dislike them, I simply do not find it enjoyable.  There is no challenge to it, and I almost feel bad when I shoot them.  Not my idea of fun.  I want to go out with guys that are my age or older, and are of my skill level or better.  If I'm not getting my ass handed to me by someone with a better gun, and better tactics, I'm not learning.  I have yet to meet anyone under 18 that can out-shoot me on the field.

When it comes to the forums, it's a bit different.  90% of the retarded sh*t posted here is by a minor.  Call it whatever you want ("Age Profiling" sounds good to me ), but I tend to be a bit less lenient towards minors.

So, in closing, don't think I hate minors or think they should be banned from playing airsoft.  I simply wish them to be a bit less chatty, and pay attention to what the big boys have to say.  There is something to be said for these young bucks, 15 or 16 years old, that come to every game and can hang with the older guys when the whistle blows.  By the time they are my age, they will be some awesome players!  Nothing can beat experience.

I hope you guys understand and keep this in mind next time I rip you a new one.

I don't like to get into the legalities of this either, so please save that for another thread.  These are simply my thoughts from a social standpoint.

[busta_cap]

Christian I don't really think this deserves it's own thread, but alright since we are here.

I am 16, there now that's out of the way. Without discussing legalities, the fact is, most minors aren't THAT good...Some are probably in a lot better shape than their older counterparts but lack the skill and experience. Although I have only matched up against you once or twice way way back Sarge, That was my first game and I remember taking you out, it took me quite a few shots but I did.

Now, If I had to go back and do it all again, I would wait until I was at least 16 to get involved and really start playing for a few reasons:

-Legalities
-Sponsorship would be an option for official events
-Maturity seems to jump from being an all knowing freshman to a sophomore or Junior in high school.
-$$- This is a rich sport, so unless your a rich little prick you are going to be dishing out wads of cash to get playing.

Now with that said, I think we all know who the "hardcore" minors are. Ha
 

[sNiPeRWoLf88]

Now, I do understand where you are coming from.  

However, how do you know if I am of your skill level or not?  I mean, when I go 9 and 1 at an event against ALL adults (this event would be the game on that rainy day at Four Peaks, which I think I met you at), I beg to differ.  If I'm not of any adult's skill level, then why would I be able to nail a single one?  I shouldn't be able to hit them, right?  But I do.  

Which goes to say that, yeah, maybe there are some 17 year olds out there who CAN actually give you a challenge out on the field.



And remember, airsoft was birthed from kids playing around with BB guns at low speeds.  It's kind of like despising Henry Ford for revolutionizing the car, all the while with you driving a Ford.  Or any car at that.

[Lightning_Man]

I can sympethise with both AZsarge's position and that of our younger players.

This is one of those things that makes me want to push growth of the hobby. This is why sports have different leagues. Ideally there would be enough people playing to suport a youth league and an adult league. With the smallish number of people playing though, in order to get a big game together it seems like you pretty much need to allow for a very low age limit

As has been mentioned several times in several posts, I really think the sponsorship idea is great. I like the idea, if younger players are going to be playing, that they have a mentor of sorts. I think ideally this relationship would be a semi-permanent arrangement that endured until the "padawan" was 18. Kinda like the apprenticeship used in trade skills.

[azsarge]

I'm under the impression that your opinion of the sponsorship is exactly WHY it was created so long ago.  I have seen the sponsored minors, and played with them.  All of them were mature, well-behaved, and held their own on the field.

Like I said, I have nothing against you minors.  Some of the best "O man, did you see that?" moments have been from minors making a nice move, or getting a good kill.

It all comes down to companionship.  As I said before, I don't go to bars with 16 year olds so why would I want to play airsoft with them.  The fact that I do is because they come to games and behave themselves in a manner conducive to them being invited to the next event.

Another thing, Jeff.  I see what you mean about the growth of our hobby.   However, I would like to push it's growth more toward guys like you and me, current or former military or LE guys out for a good time.  Getting to do what we do, but for fun rather than training or killing.  This is where an issue arises - I really like the energy and enthusiasm some of these younger guys bring to the hobby!  While I want this game geared more toward adults, the hobby just wouldn't be what it is without our younger half.  They have just as much of a right to enjoy it as we do, as long as they behave in a mature fashion.

That said, I do see a problem with very young guys coming out to play.  There cannot be a set age limit, as we all act differently, but it's safe to say that guys as young as 13-14 should maybe wait a few years.  18 is a good age limit, but there just wouldn't be enough adults to fill in the holes.  

I have hosted 18+ only games before (non-official AA games) and there were barely enough players to make it work.  Sure, the guys with the wives and kids pledge their attendance, but when gameday rolls around, they just don't show up.  There's nothing worse than a flake!  This is where the kids come through everytime.  That energy and enthusiasm is enduring, and they are out there freezing their ass off in the morning air, before it's even light out waiting at the conoco while Mr. Snuffy is back at home watching Saturday morning cartoons with junior.  Priorities are priorities, and family comes first, but guys like that need to think about what exactly they DO when it comes to airsoft.  

What I'm getting at is that you are either a player, or a collector.  Get out there and use thtose expensive gats and that nice gear, don't just look at it!

[chainsaw]

I see where all of you are coming from but az sarge when you said you only want to play equal or better players it means that you are the same or not as good and you said that you dint want to play with worse but yet the players beter then you havent complained about you being worse (just a statement i have no idea how good you are but keep that in mind.)

[azsarge]

I see where all of you are coming from but az sarge when you said you only want to play equal or better players it means that you are the same or not as good and you said that you dint want to play with worse but yet the players beter then you havent complained about you being worse (just a statement i have no idea how good you are but keep that in mind.)

In AA, you either suck or you don't.  There is not that much variance in skill level.  

By saying I like to play with guys that are as good as I am or better, I was basically saying that I don't want to play against a little kid who is going to cower behind a bush, not move under fire, and not know how to use a radio.  See what I mean by "not fun"?

Yeah, it's the only way to learn but I don't care.  If there is one guy out there that needs some work, thats fine, we can work together and he can learn.  What I don't want is a field of BB fodder.  After all, I learned much of my fieldcraft from sticking real close to the player(s) that I thought moved the best, shot the best, and had the best set of tactics.  In between scenarios I would pick their brain, and get the low down on how to better kill the bad guys.  Then I joined the Army and was pleased to see that most of it translated into real-life.

I see what you mean about everyone else not complaining when I sucked, but that doesn't apply here.

Airsofter1, Raith, Harley, Victor3, TheRev (et al) guys what are your thoughts?

[chainsaw]

alright, i dont really have room to talk as I havenot been to a game befor but from paintball and 6-12 man games with my friends i do not like people to hide behind bushes either because it is unrealstic *yes* i do know how to use a raido and i do look up to you guys especialy you bucket and harley.

[studdermonkey]

I don't have time to read it all, just got back from ER , and gotta go in a bit. But this isn't that big of an issue for me, I've opportunities to go to "official" games, but I won't because I can simply wait till' I'm 18.. theres plenty of other games. I say, make the damn forum a bit more strict, and maybe.. 16 is good for the forums, and 18 is good for official games.

I may be 17, but I still get the rules, and how I fall into the pit of "kid" still, and for a long while.

And Christian has a BIG oint I never thought.. gameplay. I'd rather shoot him, or Ian (not that I CAN) than chainsaw, or whatever other *-14 kid there is scared shitless on the field.

Conclusion: Just wait to play till you're older.

[chainsaw]

How do you know i would be scared nate? and 16 for the fourms?!? its a public fourm and kids like me who are intrested in airsoft are the future of the sport weather anybody likes it or not and I do see that it isnt fun to play with **most** kids but it would help to teah them the way to play or they will never learn.

[busta_cap]

I see where all of you are coming from but az sarge when you said you only want to play equal or better players it means that you are the same or not as good and you said that you dint want to play with worse but yet the players beter then you havent complained about you being worse (just a statement i have no idea how good you are but keep that in mind.)

:roll: I think you need to try and use some punctuation, then maybe when we can understand what you are saying, we can put an effort towards responding instead of scratching our heads whenever we read your posts. :?

Now, back to the topic at hand. Sponsership at 16+ is probably the best idea, because, I personally wish I would have waited till I was a little older and had the money and a job to buy all this crap, and was a little more mature.

[Cheeze_IZ_G00d]

You know, Christian, I think that you might be pigeon holing us young guys a little bit. Saying that, "Oh, well I don't go to bars with these kids" so I shouldn't play airsoft with them is pretty ridiculous. As aforementioned, the growth of the sport depends on the new guys. Furthermore, if you want a whole field of good players in 5 years, a new 14 year old today might not be so bad if you look at it in the long run. People mature from being around other mature people, not from being old. If you treat a kid like he/she is stupid, or immature, they will be stupid and/or immature. However, if you treat a kid with respect like you would anyone else, they mature much faster. I firmly disagree with the statement that all young people are stupid and that they make stupid comments and the like, and I resent that you say you only want to play with people that are as good/better than you. If you only play like that, there are no new players. If you want good players, teach them how to be good players. Don't just piss and moan about it.Airsoft is a great hobby, but sometimes people take it way too seriously.

[chainsaw]

Now, back to the topic at hand. Sponsership at 16+ is probably the best idea, because, I personally wish I would have waited till I was a little older and had the money and a job to buy all this crap, and was a little more mature.[/quote]

Sponsership should be at 16 or for players who have attended games and got approved by somebody like AZsarge Harley or Mikey. But because this is a HEAVILY weighted topic i wont talk because i dont want to make anybody mad or anything so I will stop Repling unless people want me to.

[busta_cap]

You know, Christian, I think that you might be pigeon holing us young guys a little bit. Saying that, "Oh, well I don't go to bars with these kids" so I shouldn't play airsoft with them is pretty ridiculous. As aforementioned, the growth of the sport depends on the new guys. Furthermore, if you want a whole field of good players in 5 years, a new 14 year old today might not be so bad if you look at it in the long run. People mature from being around other mature people, not from being old. If you treat a kid like he/she is stupid, or immature, they will be stupid and/or immature. However, if you treat a kid with respect like you would anyone else, they mature much faster. I firmly disagree with the statement that all young people are stupid and that they make stupid comments and the like, and I resent that you say you only want to play with people that are as good/better than you. If you only play like that, there are no new players. If you want good players, teach them how to be good players. Don't just piss and moan about it.Airsoft is a great hobby, but sometimes people take it way too seriously.

Where did he say that all young people are stupid and immature? I must have missed that one, Although I am only 16, I can back my buddy Christian here up on this one, cause I understand where he comes from, I wouldn’t want a 23 year old hanging out with me and my friends at lunch(well Christian you are cool enough ). The fact is, I actually don't hang out with many kids my age because they simply, fucking stupid. Most of my friends have spawned from playing airsoft and are my true, good friends that don't act like asses. I don't see any problem with letting a 14 year old on the forums, but if you can't learn to spell or use punctuation and not be a nard, leave.

[studdermonkey]

I have the perfect idea..

If you wanna bitch and moan about not being old enough to play, go to a different local forum ::cough mma::, and come back when you're not gonna complain.

And if you see some of the posts the young ones make (young one: 10-15), some of them piss me off. Specially the topic, and how it's displayed.. wasn't there one, not on the beginner forum or whatever named "hi"? That, the annoying stuff, pisses me off.

Airsoft is also a sport for adults in my opinion (18+). I'm not 18, which is why I consider myself lucky to be where I am in the sport. And if they think I need a bit more maturity, and wait till 18.. so be it.

And I didn't mean anything harsh when I said go to a diff forum like MMA, seeing as how they are proud to have no real age limit, so you can be around other super young kids, like yourself, and play!