Chronoing

[studdermonkey]

Well, I was hit by some guns that I was sure were over 400 at the game, but it didn't matter to me. Getting hit by a gun that goes exactly 400 and a gun thath goes 405 won't change a thing, I believe. I know, my G36c shoots 330 with .25's, so not like I'm defending myself here. The rules should be enforced, but in my opinion, the rules should be able to be slightly bent. Not bent to 420-430fps, but bent to 403, 406.. lets just not have that middle digit change to 1, 2 or 3.

Again, say what you please.. these are only my opinions.

[Raith]

The rules should be enforced, but in my opinion, the rules should be able to be slightly bent. Not bent to 420-430fps, but bent to 403, 406.. lets just not have that middle digit change to 1, 2 or 3.

Then just think that the limit is 390 FPS and it can be "bent" to 400 if you want to.

[azsarge]

Rules are f*cking rules!

If someone breaks them, ask them to leave, simple as that.

When I played at AA games in the past, the rules were strictly enforced.  There were never any problems!  I'd like to see this kept the way it is because it works.  

Tagging is a good idea, but it's a pain.  Tags can be bought, and a whole other issue arises.  

Keep it within the limits set forth by the games organizer(s), or don't use it.  Don't like it?  Leave.

There will ALWAYS be ways to get around the system - any system. Your point is taken sarge, but some prevention is far better than no prevention.  Hopefully, most of the violators are simply new guys who don't know better.

Then we need to educate them!  Let this thread serve as a tool to teach all new players that AA games, and hopefully non-AA games as well, will stick to a stringent plan of chronoing every single weapon used in gameplay for that day.  

Which brings up my other point.  Don't just chrono the gun their holding at the time, make them chrono every gun that works!  This prevents them from grabbing a hot gun out of their trunk after we have started the game.  Most players aren't this dishonest, but some could do it without knowing.  For this reason, I think tagging of some sort would be a good idea.  It will also get players used to how its done at big OPs.

[busta_cap]

Have a different stamp or an initial everytime. Have one persno be the person to check the guns and tag them so they can tell if its authentic.

[Lightning_Man]

I think that mandatory chronoing is a very good idea. That said, that means you have to insure that the guy with the chrono is at every game or hands it off, and it starts to be a hassle. As for the tags, same thing, except now you have to add in that someone has to pay for them and keep them and all that.

I would actually go with optional chronoing, with the following stipulations.

1) Everyone is warned about the fps limit before every game and given the oppertunity to chrono if they want to.
2) Anyone can insist at any time that someone's gun be taken to the chrono (like if you think it's hot after being hit)
3) If you do not take the oppertunity to get chronoed before the game and get caught (someone called you out and your hot) Then you are done. You are done playing at that event, and possibly done playing at AA games; or maybe on double secret probation for the next three games or something, multiple offenses= no more AA games.

This puts the reponsibility on the guns owners. Sure, you might get in a game or two with your hot gun before someone gets you sent off, but then you become persona nongrata at AA events, and maybe AA can even add a "violation" list to the website so that it becomes very hard for people like that to find games to play in. And nobody can complain if they get on that list because they had the oppertunity to chrono before the game and didn't take it.

[azsarge]

Not a bad idea, but it would require several changes to the already existing AA policy.  

I for one would not want to be called out just because someone thought I was hot.  I know my fps, I shouldn't have to plea to stay at the game because some kid got hit in the face and is bleeding profusely.  

Another problem is that you would have people shooting hot and not getting caught.  If the only way to test was optional, alot of players would opt to NOT chrono.  

Mandatory chrono works, period.  I have yet to personally witness a problem arise from the AA rules.  We just need to have the balls to enforce it!

[Cochise]

I believe that a tagging system may be a bit complicated.  I think a sign in sheet would work fine.  One person man's the chrono station with a sheet and marks what player and gun is checked as OK.  Before gameplay, an organizer can do a quick count of the sheet vs. the people.  If there are 20 people and 20 sign ins, game on.  A mismatch would mean that there has to be a roll call.  I think we are all honest people here, and as I said before it is just as much a service to the guy with the gun as the other players.  I don't think anyone is looking to break the rules to gain an advantage and certainly not purposely putting other people's safety at risk by swapping out guns, though people that went to RO know that kind of stuff happens.  If you have a backup or a second weapon you want to use, chrono that up front, or else you'll have to wait for the chrono guy during inter-game time.

Whatever system would be used, I think the greater challenge is how to handle when someone has a hot gun.  It would really suck to have your only gun come out hot.  However, it is the owner's responsibility to ensure he has a weapon to spec before going to a game, just as much as it is their responsibility to have enough water or sunscreen.  As a further complication, we all know each other pretty well, so it may be hard for the chrono guy to tell a buddy they can't use their gun.  I guess the best way to look at it as a gun owner would be to think of it as your gun not working properly, instead of not firing well, it fires too well, best to take it home and work on it than chance hurting someone.

As far as leniency, there has to be a cutoff point.  The important thing is that you stick to that point.  If it's 400, it's 400.  You could play the slip game until you get back to 430.

[gixser13]

Well It all comes down to trust! The whole game is about trust and being honesty, I know that 99.9% of the AA guys are honest. They ALL  call there shots and I would even think twice about them having hot guns.So your problem lies with the new guys that dont know the rules or feel the rules dont apply to them. I been with AA for over a year now and never had a Hot gun issue, (NO HIT CALLERS)Yes, but never a hot gun. This is way I only play with good organizations like AA, ASA, and Swairtac(No offenice to the other organizations I didnt mention I on can vouch for ones I have played with )

If your caught with a hot gun(not talking one that is 390-405  inconsistence) talking 400 on every shot then yes YOU NEED TO BE BANNED FROM AA GAMES

Somthing you have to keep in mind Alot of us have more the 3 guns we bring to a game and where do you draw the the line you want to chrono my m203 also?

I all comes down to honesty, I can chrono My m24 with green gas a under 500 and use red on the field to achieve 550+ Would I no(not unless scotts brother is playing. MAN I WANT TO SHOOT HIM LOL)

[azsarge]

You both bring up some great points!  

Cochise, you hit it on the head with your statement about it getting complicated.  I think the list would work well.  With regards to hot guns, velocity reducers are great!  I bring mine to every game for this reason.  AA guys love their guns, and are always buying new ones.  Sometimes without the chance to chrono pre-op.  Slap a reducer on there, and go.  Sure they don't work well in full auto, but I don't see it as an issue if 80% of the shots are under the limits.  Besides, it takes quite a burst to get it over the desired limit with a TM reducer.

gixser13, you got it right with your statements about AA players.  At my first outdorr AA game in prescott, I was pleased with the level of maturity, honr, respect, and brotherhood of the AA crowd.  In the time I've played with them, both in AZ and at large Ops, honor has proven to be an enduring quality.

[gixser13]

I am more  concerned about guys going F/A under 10 feetway more then I am about a Hot gun at 25 feetaway in SEMI AUTO

[-MAD- SARGE]

That's when you take their gun and use it on them  [smilie=armata_pdt_35.gif].   [smilie=armata_pdt_28.gif]

[Gantaliano Hoff]

So much for Honor. (smiley)

[azsarge]

I am more  concerned about guys going F/A under 10 feetway more then I am about a Hot gun at 25 feetaway in SEMI AUTO

Same here.  

As a guy who rarely fires auto, I always wondered about WHY someone would do that.  Whats the point?  It's complete overkill to me to see these guys shooting a nearly solid stream of BBs at me.  Obviously you're not hitting the target, so why use more BBs than you have to?  

I love the look on a guys face when he unloads on me, misses, then gets tapped by a single shot to the glasses.  "Try aiming dude!"

[Gantaliano Hoff]

That's what I'm talkin about! Happened to me one time, and boy did I learn my lesson.

I was currently fighting my friend during a skirmish and I was hiding behind a pillar. Then I burst out and opened up on him and charged at him. I'm firing everywhere but him, and then I run out of ammo, and he takes aim. I do a dive roll (it was pretty sweet too, actually I practice them at home) and come up with my pistol in hand and *Bamb!*, one shot in between my eyes. Really ticked me off, but I'll never do it again.

[busta_cap]

That's what I'm talkin about! Happened to me one time, and boy did I learn my lesson.

I was currently fighting my friend during a skirmish and I was hiding behind a pillar. Then I burst out and opened up on him and charged at him. I'm firing everywhere but him, and then I run out of ammo, and he takes aim. I do a dive roll (it was pretty sweet too, actually I practice them at home) and come up with my pistol in hand and *Bamb!*, one shot in between my eyes. Really ticked me off, but I'll never do it again.

The only roll in John woo movies...And SWAT.

If I am not sure if Im gonna hit someone or not and I have visual contact, I usually take a few pock shots at them and adjust from there. My m4 is dialed for about 100ft so shots can vary beyond that.