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Offline Victor3

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« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2004, 03:26:08 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And I guarantee that if (god forbid) someone on this forum gets killed by an assault weapon, or 50 cal, every single one of you will change your stance, at least on this issue...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Someone could kill my entire family with a .50 BMG or an assault weapon and I would still not advocate banning them. The gun does not kill, the person does.

I would however hope that the police got to them before I did!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Victor3 »
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Offline Raith

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« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2004, 03:30:02 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoli</i>
<br />Unless youre planning on killing somone, you should not have a 50cal. imo...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm confused... You are in favor of banning 50 caliber weapons, but intent to commit homocide is a validator on ownership?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've been shooting. Its not fun. I dont see spending my time shooting at a paper target that just sits there fun.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I think thats too normative of a statement to be using when trying to make your case.  There are many, many people in the US and around the world who find shooting firearms extremely fun.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I believe guns do serve a purpose, but in the right hands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Who would decide whos hands are the "right hands?"  I find it hard to believe you would tolerate a similar stance on what you were allowed to say, read, or write.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And I guarantee that if (god forbid) someone on this forum gets killed by an assault weapon, or 50 cal, every single one of you will change your stance, at least on this issue...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

And I guarantee you that would not be the case.  First off, that is too blanket of a statement to be applied to such a diverse group of people.  Also, I know there are plenty of folks on here who would not reverse their strong held convictions that firearms are most certainly not the cause of such crime and not to be the scapegoats of criminal behavior.

---

I'm curious, what do you think about 50 caliber weapons that are not "sniper rifles?"  Are they not to be banned because of they are not "sniper rifles?"  What is your criteria here for what is deemed dangerous enough to ban and what is not?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raith »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2004, 03:31:41 PM »
No offense but I find it ridiculous that some of you are even sitting there calling semi-automatic rifles "assault weapons".  They're just friggen semi-automatic rifles for cryin out loud.

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline Firehead

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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2004, 04:23:44 PM »
There is always a need for a standing militia, everywhere. Hell, what do you think the national guard is? Militia, with authority. Now our second amendment right says: the right to bear arms and maintain a standing militia. Now, i don't know how many of you know who John Locke is, but he stated the we have a few basic rights, one of them is the "right to revolution". Which means that if our government gets out of control, we can over throw them. Now, if they take all of our guns away, this is impossible. And ain't a damn thing any of us can do about it if we have no way to force them out of office. Now im not trying to say anything about our government, but you NEVER know. Im sure im gunna get flamed or something for saying this, but its okay. Now, my reasoning(the actual reasoning) for owning an assault weapon(my SKS) is home defense, there have been several occasions(1) where i have pulled out my SKS and proceded to load it, and ready myself to fire. This was when some ****head gang bangers decided they wanted to have a war outside(on of them did end up shooting my truck). I was ready do defend my home(my dad was out of town, actually... out of country) and my mom is practically incapable of defending herself. Any other weapon would have been incapable of delivering the amount of damage needed to stop several men(approximately 10-15, but most had fled except 4 or 5 once the shooting had actually started, which continued for about a minute after i heard the first shot) except for an assault weapon(i love the 7.62 x 39 round!). What would you have done?There are pistols which are alot worse than a .223(just an overpowered .22) in my opinion(like a .45), and easier to coneal than an assault rifle, yet they make no attempt to stop people from buying them.
Okay, i think im done ranting, and hell i prolly missed my point. A man without a gun is a subject, a man with a gun is a citizen. Also, like someone else already said, guns don't kill people, people kill people, a gun is simply an instrument. The same thing can be accomplished with a machete. Its all about the will of the person.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Firehead »

Offline Ruiner

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« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2004, 04:46:57 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by leadmagnet</i>
<br />No offense but I find it ridiculous that some of you are even sitting there calling semi-automatic rifles "assault weapons".  They're just friggen semi-automatic rifles for cryin out loud.

Lead
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

well if i remember correctly this topic is about the 'assult weapons' ban.. which banned certain SEMI-AUTOMATIC weapons.  Lead you know the ASSULT WEAPON ban had nothign to do with full auto right?

as for the 50 cal issue... are you telling me that you honestly feel that a 50cal rifle is more deadly than a .308 hunting rifle?  I have a .308 that can hit at upwards of 300 yards... just like a 50 cal.  so what exactly makes the 50 cal more deadly in your mind? is it just the fact that the bullet is bigger? im confused.  I love how folks are all for banning things that look scary.  They go on and on about how the DC sniper used an "assult weapon"  he coudl have just as easily used a hunting rifle.  Hell hunting rifles are often more accurate and have greater penetration and killing power, but yet nobody complains about them.  Why? cus their made of wood? and look purty?  or is it cuz good old grandpa used them for hunting and so did dear ol dad?

as for shooting being fun.  where the hell do you get off telling us what should be or shouldnt be fun?  Im not telling you that Airsoft isnt fun now am i?  If my wife went to an airsoft game and was thrown into the mix im fairly sure she wouldnt find it fun.  but does that mean that you cant find it fun?  thats the most idiotic coment ive read yet in this thread.  I find shooting fun.. these guys find shooting fun.  MILLIONS of peopel worldwide find shooting fun.  Hell, target shooting is in the FREAKIN OLYMPICS MAN!  sheesh...

ok.. had to vent on that last one...

im not saying that full auto shold be easy to get... but they should be possible to get IMHO.  HOWEVER this thread is about the AWB.. and PLEASE PEOPLE... get educated!  the AWB had NOTHING .. i repeat.. NOTHING to do with Full auto guns!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ruiner »
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Offline sNiPeRWoLf88

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« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2004, 05:04:37 PM »
poor stolie.  your taking all the hits.  lol.  but you got balls standing up against what would otherwise be a one sidded conversations (pro's only, no con's).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by sNiPeRWoLf88 »
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Offline Raith

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« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2004, 05:22:50 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ruiner</i>
<br />well if i remember correctly this topic is about the 'assult weapons' ban.. which banned certain SEMI-AUTOMATIC weapons.  Lead you know the ASSULT WEAPON ban had nothign to do with full auto right?

...

im not saying that full auto shold be easy to get... but they should be possible to get IMHO.  HOWEVER this thread is about the AWB.. and PLEASE PEOPLE... get educated!  the AWB had NOTHING .. i repeat.. NOTHING to do with Full auto guns!!!!!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ruiner, You guys are pointing out the same thing, I think you misunderstood him. [;)]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raith »
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Offline Ruiner

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« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2004, 06:59:50 PM »
Ahh.. you may be right Raith.. hehe oops.  Thats why the comment confused me.. i remember Lead being smarter than that.  But the real reason i posted was my coment about finding shooting fun.  The other was just added materal :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ruiner »
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Offline Stoli

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« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2004, 08:43:44 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ruiner</i>
<br />as for shooting being fun.  where the hell do you get off telling us what should be or shouldnt be fun? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I never said anything remotely like that. I suggest you reread my post...

"poor stoli. your taking all the hits. lol. but you got balls standing up against what would otherwise be a one sidded conversations (pro's only, no con's)."

Thank you Sniper. I knew everyone & their grandma would be all over my ass for posting against guns (oh no!) but I really dont care. I'm tired of people on here labeling everyone that doesnt own an arsenal of weapons an "anti-gun nut" so I spoke up...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Stoli »
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Offline Mr. Joseph

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« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2004, 09:18:36 PM »
You sound pretty anti gun.  I like hot rods, but I dont own one.  I dont go to car shows to give people ****.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Mr. Joseph »

Offline Greg

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« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2004, 10:49:02 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sNiPeRWoLf88</i>
<br />poor stolie.  your taking all the hits.  lol.  but you got balls standing up against what would otherwise be a one sidded conversations (pro's only, no con's).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You're right! We need to give you some flak too! [:D]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
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Offline Stoli

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« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2004, 10:57:25 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mr. Joseph</i>
<br />You sound pretty anti gun.  I like hot rods, but I dont own one.  I dont go to car shows to give people ****.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Youre right, except I'm not giving people ****. Unless youre calling my opinion ****. Which I know youre more mature then that. But you do have a point. I just simply wont post about my opinion anymore...Solve everyones problem.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Stoli »
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Offline Harley

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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2004, 10:58:42 PM »
Hey Stoli, have you ever priced a .50 "sniper" rifle?  They aren't your average $150 SKS by any means.  I'd love to get one myself but I can't justify spending upwards of $5,000 for a nice one.  Sure you can get one for around $2,000 but you get what you pay for. And as for the "non sporting use" issue.  Do you know how many people there are in this country that participate in long range rifle competition?  They've been doing it for many many years and as of today, I have yet to hear of anyone in this county being shot by a .50 caliber "sniper" rifle.  YET they'll have you believe that they pose a SERIOUS threat to our countries safety!  Show me evidence of one shooting and I'll shut up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2004, 12:30:17 PM »
a few thoughts on both sides of the issue.  on teh right to revolution part, guns arent going to do it.  if there WERE an armed insurrection, you would need artillery of some sort, ect, to go against the military.  improvised rpgs at the least, and i have several friends that have made model rocket engines from household chemichals, and putting a small explosive on it isnt THAT tough.  the guns wont win the revolution, explosives and guerrilla tactics will.  

yeah, guns get missused.  so do many other things.  as i stated, the problem is PERCEPTION.  most anti gun (hell most pro gun too) are completely unaware that you are 5 times more likely to die from a knifewound than a gun shot.  you take a pistol round anywhere but th ehead or the heart, youve got about 30 minutes to make it to a hospital.  you take a 4 inch kinfe to the gut, if you arent dead beore you hit the ground from shock, th elikelyhood is you could get stabbed IN THE ER, and you probably wont make it.

need?  why is it about need?  i dont need 1056 bit encryption, but waste, a file sharing program, has it if you want it.

.50 cals.

they pierce concrete, and body armor.  puts a hole in inch thick steel.  hence why they say its bad.  

the issue here is education.  if the majority of antigunners got educated and understood, you woulnd have as much of it.

and i say the best way to promote that is a licensing program.  require anyone who wants to own a gun to pass a test showing they know how to use their weapons safely.  give provisions for removal of license (in possesion of loaded firearm when drunk, for instance).

you will find gun ownership SKYROCKETING.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline Harley

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« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2004, 12:51:35 PM »
Education is the key with firearms safety just the same as it is with driving a car or anything for that matter.  The point here is to keep the government out of the loop so they can't do to us what they do in other states.  Mandatory firearms purchase cards and restricted carry permits and things of that nature.  If the state wants to fund a firearms saftey program that's fine, but so long as they don't make it so difficult to purposely make people fail.  Remember, the 2nd amendment gurantees the right and does not stipulate any approval by the government, state or federal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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