Airsoft guns are now illegal in Chandler, AZ (?!)

[Greg]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/0526cr-playguns26Z6.html

Chandler may ease play-gun ordinance

Edythe Jensen
The Arizona Republic
May. 26, 2005 12:00 AM

People who carry toy guns that look real in Chandler won't be breaking the law any more if the City Council makes expected changes to the ordinance tonight.

Members will likely approve re-wording of the city's weapons ordinance that now makes it a misdemeanor to carry a loaded air gun, BB gun or paint ball gun in a public place. Offenders can be punished by up to six months in jail and up to a $2,500 fine.

The law has come under fire recently from parents who say the toys aren't dangerous and the law is too harsh. But school and police officials have said they are concerned about the real-gun appearance of toys and the potential for injury from plastic projectiles.
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The proposed change would make it legal to carry such devices, but not fire them or display them in a threatening manner on public property. Use of the devices has been and would continue to be legal on private property. David Layman, 50, said he has been complaining for months about the city's ban on carrying toy guns and didn't know the council was voting on a change this week. The new wording is a step in the right direction, but inadequate, Layman said.

"The City Council is passing a law that seeks to criminalize petty acts by citizens. I think their purpose would be better served by a civil fine," he said.

Layman's 16-year-old son is scheduled to appear in municipal court next week to defend himself on criminal charges related to his use of an AirSoft gun. The father said the gun was fired from his son's car by another youth.

"I'm not happy with my son's actions," Layman said, "But the actions of the police and our government are way out of line considering the offense."

The gun, which shoots a plastic pellet, is safe enough for him to allow his son to play with it around the family cars, he said.

"It doesn't scratch the car or crack windows," he said.

In a memo to the council, City Attorney Dennis O'Neill said the display or discharge of "weapons other than firearms can create a significant enough danger to warrant criminal prosecution." However, a misdemeanor gives judges the discretion to defer prosecution and levy reduced fines or jail time, he said.

Police helped draft the changes. Officers are most concerned with the use of toy guns that look real, said Chandler Police spokesman Mark Franzen.

"It's not a good thing to take those toy guns and point them at someone who can misjudge them as real weapons," he said. "Somebody could get hurt." Tonight's meeting is at 7 at 22 S. Delaware St.

[Gantaliano Hoff]

Well, with all of the terrorism going on, and the wars we've been fighting, the government is what you might say...paranoid about guns, or look-a-like guns.

Just remember that when a cop doesn't know whether you're holding a real gun or an airsoft gun, they're going to assume its a real one.

[Firehead]

Well, with all of the terrorism going on, and the wars we've been fighting, the government is what you might say...paranoid about guns, or look-a-like guns.

Not really, considering that our government let the AWB die.

[Gantaliano Hoff]

Well even so:

...when a cop doesn't know whether you're holding a real gun or an airsoft gun, they're going to assume its a real one.

[Firehead]

Still doesn't explain the government being "paranoid" about firearms.  Nothing has changed. Terrorism cuased nothing to change. In the 1980 is you walked around and pointed guns at people, i'm 99 percent sure the cops would blast you for something like this. 25 years later it is still the same.

[Gantaliano Hoff]

"sigh" fine you win.

[Mooncruiser]

Roosevelt Lake is pretty rural. I got stopped for speeding by the DPS, and the first thing out of the officer's mouth were "Do you have any weapons in your vehicle?"

A guy recently got blown away on the Beeline for leaping up from the passenger-side of a pulled-over car... no weapon, just a sudden move and..well.

I see Gang Unit Phx P.D. armed to the teeth and looking like Robocop. These guys have their threat-radar on full... -While getting coffee in the Starbucks I sat in in Yuppieville..

-Let's all be real careful out there, amigos.

Chip

[9mm]

Like you all said the right of having am airsoft gun is for having fun. But if someone wants it and use then in a crime then that is their stupited and they should be token for it. But the law on the guns i know how real they are and what can happen cues i had a cop on my ass for having one while i was playing a game. What got me is he was giving me crap about it and 5 other of my friends were next to me and he didn't say anything to then.
I think they are just making a big deal about what isn’t that big when they have a gun there self’s

[Cheeze_IZ_G00d]

Wow man, please, separate your sentences and use proper grammar. By the way, this little ban was recently "modified" to eliminate the law against airsoft guns. What really gets to me is the fact that you can carry a real gun in plain sight, but if you have an airsoft gun in a holster, it is a big no no.

[busta_cap]

Actually..I would like to see what would happen if a cop were to see you(someone 18+) in a public place open carrying an airsoft gun with a blazed tip..

[Lasivian]

I actually looked up the regulations on airsoft type weapons for glendale and phoenix (Where my houses are).

Glendale specifically states that any "pneumatic or spring projectile weapon" is illegal to fire within city limits.

Phoenix says the same thing, but has an exception to target practice.

However i've been shooting my pellet rifle in the backyard for years in glendale and i've never been worried about it.

Now if I did something as stupid as carrying an M4 replica (Even with the orange tip) to the state capital would I expect to raise hackles? You bet.

I think the biggest problem arrises when two sides in an issue (Being HCI and NRA as an example) are completely unwilling to reach a compromise because they can only see the issue as black and white and only from their one side.

My stance on airsoft-type weapons? Unregulated so long as they look like toys, like the mashed in spring minis, (IE. if you point one at a cop they should be able to ID it as a toy immediately, alot more blaze orage than the tip alone too). And guns built to resemble real weapons should be treated as such and require no orange tip, since some idiot somewhere is bound to load up his/her AEG with copper BBs and kill someone else (We all know it's very possible) and that'll make us all look bad. If we're proactive about policing ourselves now it won't be a shocking surprise when it happens.

[KamikazeSM]

since some idiot somewhere is bound to load up his/her AEG with copper BBs and kill someone else (We all know it's very possible)

I hope you're being sarcastic...

To achieve a sufficient velocity in any normal airsoft gun for a smaller and heavier BB (such as copper/steel .177) is near impossible. Not only would a hypothetical 6mm copper BB have no range, it would still leave with the same muzzle energy, severely damaging its momentum.  Metal coated BB's already exist for high end sniper rifles and you're more than welcome to use them in your AEG, but you won't be able to hit a thing.  Even if you get a smaller diameter barrel and greatly increase the power, you're looking at tons of upgrades that a) the gun probably cant' stand for more than a few shots and b) will take tons of time and money.  Putting that much time and effort into your airsoft gun is ridiculous especially since you could just buy a regualr C02 BB gun anywhere for like $20... I don't know what fool is going to take the hundreds necessary to get an airsoft gun to the equivalent of a normal BB gun.  I think BB's present more of a choking hazard than anything...

[Lasivian]

I'm not saying a stock gun could do it, my point was that it could be done.

And chances are some idiot out there will try to do it. Or bring real steel to an airsoft game and kill someone that way.

We all know stupider things have been done.

[KamikazeSM]

The slower BB guns put out 3-5 ft-lbs of energy.  You need to achieve 350fps/106m/s with a .177 BB in order for it to be considered dangerous.  That's over 4J of energy, about 3-4x what most airsoft guns shoot.  Considering this is for target BB guns, any BB/pellet gun meant for hunting needs considerably more energy to be lethal to small game.   Consider that one of the highest velocities capable on an airsoft gun is 600 fps on the WA-2000 (an extremely rare GAS gun).  Even at that, the energy output is only 3.3J.  You see where I'm going with this?  To acheive 3.3J with a spring is nigh on impossible and only high end sniper rifles are even capable of getting close, but you're looking to spend a ton of money even getting there.  To acheive a lethal terminal velocity with that muzzle veolcity, you'd have to do a point blank shot.  Why go to all this trouble when BB guns are readily obtainable and less of a hassle and already shooting hot enough?  I just don't get why you're arguing the lethality of an airsoft gun since it's such a a rarity/improbability and not as simple as "some idiot loading copper BB's".  If we're gonna talk sheer possibility here, it's probably more likely you'll get struck by lightning in the field or impale yourself on your gun.  And real steel at an airsoft game is a completely unrelated issue since 99% of the time we chrono beforehand.  If someone is so intent on harming people, airsoft is more of a hassle than its worth.  Are you trying to argue how lethal airsoft is?

[Lasivian]

You're trying your best to argue the technical aspects of this which is fine, I agree as well, it's HIGHLY unlikely that someone would do such a thing.

But it could happen, and if we treat airsoft as toys now it's going to be impossible to stem the tide of public opinion if it does happen. If we treat them as weapons we'll gain more public respect when and if something goes horribly wrong.