Airsoft Arizona

Off-Topic Forums => Real Firearms => Topic started by: Harley on January 12, 2004, 04:11:12 PM

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Post by: Harley on January 12, 2004, 04:11:12 PM: You need to fill out the proper paperwork for building the firearm, go through all the hoops for finger printing and background checks locally. Then send it all in to the ATF with your $200 tax fee. When you get it all back approved you can THEN build your gun or assemble it as I'm sure that's what you plan to do. Be ready for lot's of fireballs out of that short barrel though. Get a good Flash hider like a Vortex or Phantom to help control it. Short barreled AR's are cool!

Leakingpen, you paying attention here? Do you see what this man will have to go through to own a rifle that the only difference in it from any other one is that the barrel is less than 16 inches. It doesn't make this gun anymore dangerous that one with a longer barrel. Just another way for the goverment to regulate gun ownership which it has no right to do under the US constitution.
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Post by: Screwloose on January 12, 2004, 04:49:40 PM: Ahmen to that last line.
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Post by: Harley on January 12, 2004, 05:54:58 PM: One more thing Basher, once you register it as an SBR it will always be an SBR. You can't throw a regular upper on it and sell as a normal AR15 after that. So keep that in mind.
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Post by: Paco on January 12, 2004, 06:05:12 PM: I was also going to say that he can't install a flash hider on it unless he buys a preban lower, or waits until mid September. The big downside to a SBR is what Harley mentioned - once the lower is registered as a SBR, it is ALWAYS that, so it's VERY difficult if not impossible to sell. That being said, I never understood why someone would want a 10" barrel for "fun" shooting - especially in a "post ban" config.
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Post by: Harley on January 12, 2004, 06:14:25 PM: I didn't mention that because he stated he was getting prepared for the ban to sunset. Kind of like someone else I know....
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Post by: Harley on January 12, 2004, 08:50:53 PM: Oh, one more thing. If you decide to go through with the SBR project, when you fill out the paper work and put down the caliber of the rifle, be smart and mark down several such as 9mm, .45acp, 10mm, 7.62x39, etc. I say this because it's important, if you were ever to be approached by an ATF agent and asked to show your tax stamp and the gun is registered as a .223/5.56 and you had a 9mm or any other caliber upper on it you would be in violation. Stupid technicality, but a serious one just the same.

Download the ATF form 2 for building a new firearm which is basically what you're doing. Look it over carfully, I noticed that it spceifies barrel length as well, so you may want to spcify more than one length in case you swap uppers. I'd contact the ATF though and explain what you want to do and how should you fill out the form.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms (http://www.atf.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms)
Download ATF F 5320.2 Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported.
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Post by: leakingpen on January 13, 2004, 08:43:46 AM: amen harley. i dont agree with gun bans. (up to a point. a mortar or one of those hummer mounted .50 cal machine guns is a bit much. ) and the current assault weapons ban is ridiculous. pretty much just bans guns based on their looks, so you remake teh same weapon with some differences and its fine...

now i have a question. are there restrictions on what you can build yourself "from scratch" as it were? not a copy of a particular firearm, but a totally homebrew creation from sheet metal and home cast parts? just curious.
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Post by: Harley on January 13, 2004, 09:51:16 AM: Anyone who can legally own a firearm can build one per year for their own personal use, not for resale. That's a home built, made from scratch project mind you. Like one of those 80% receivers you see on eBay for sale all the time. No serial number is required either.
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Post by: Pancho on January 13, 2004, 10:04:05 AM: Now, I find this thread extemely intersting. I want a shorty AR real bad!
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Post by: leakingpen on January 13, 2004, 10:04:13 AM: do they have to fall under the other various bans regarding round capacity, barrel length, ect? (i know, i know, look it up, but i figured you'd know off the top of your head) thanks.
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Post by: Harley on January 13, 2004, 10:44:16 AM: Yes you have to follow all the normal rules, barrel length, assult weapon no-no's, etc.
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Post by: SHIFTY1944 on January 13, 2004, 09:10:38 PM: Shorty barrels look cool but a 16 is still small.Thank god that the legal limit is'nt 25 or something.
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Post by: Basher on January 16, 2004, 04:44:31 PM: Hey, I almost forgot about this thread!

Thanks for the responses, guys. One question. Once I have this thing built, can I put a 16 or 20" upper on it for a varmint outting, provided I have my "tax stamp" with me to prove what it is? I mean, I know you can switch uppers, but it never crossed my mind. I almost dropped the idea a day or two back because of that. But if I can build it as a 11.5 or 14.5" and then put longer barrels on it just for fun little hunting outings or something, then I'll be all set. I just don't want the 11.5 or 14.5 ir that's all I can have, because I'll lose too much velocity for long range varmint hunting. Thanks guys!
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Post by: Pancho on January 16, 2004, 06:45:06 PM: Basher,
Harley & Paco both have stated the following:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harley
 One more thing Basher, once you register it as an SBR it will always be an SBR. You can't throw a regular upper on it and sell as a normal AR15 after that. So keep that in mind.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paco
 I was also going to say that he can't install a flash hider on it unless he buys a preban lower, or waits until mid September. The big downside to a SBR is what Harley mentioned - once the lower is registered as a SBR, it is ALWAYS that, so it's VERY difficult if not impossible to sell. That being said, I never understood why someone would want a 10" barrel for "fun" shooting - especially in a "post ban" config.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Post by: Paco on January 16, 2004, 08:51:32 PM: Thanks Pancho. You can put whatever upper you want on it AFAIK, but the lower will ALWAYS be a registered "SBR" even if you have it with a 20" upper on it. Just realize (again) that once you register it as a SBR, it's pretty much impossible to sell. Out of curiosity, why do you want it as a SBR? Is it just to be unique/the look?
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Post by: Harley on January 17, 2004, 11:05:40 AM: That's afirmative, you're restricted to what ever SBR barrel lengths you register it with as far as short barrels go. You can however put a 16 inch or 20 inch upper on it to go varmint hunting if you wish. It's just that when you go to sell the thing, it's always an SBR and requires the $200 transfer tax and registration by the new owner before he/she takes it home.
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Post by: Basher on January 17, 2004, 01:23:55 PM: Paco,

I still haven't decided if I want it as an SBR or not. This SWAT guy seems to think they're real fun (I've never shot one before), and if I can swap barrels out, it would just be something fun to mess around with. He's a nice guy and would teach me some stuff regarding how to use it effectively, etc. Like I said, though, I won't have much use for it besides the cool factor and as you said, it would be something unique that you don't see every day (I've never seen one, either!). Thanks guys!
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Post by: Harley on January 17, 2004, 01:41:17 PM: Now if you really want to have some fun, spend about 2K and buy a Lightning Link for an AR15. Then when you drop that bad boy into any AR15 (read pre-ban or post-ban) it is now a legal machine gun which means you can do anything and every thing to it and not have to worry about barrel length, collapsable stocks, etc, etc. You still pay the $200 transfer tax and go through the backround checks and all the fun stuff, but then you're not restricted in how you go about selling your AR when you're tired of it. So start saving your nickles and dimes and get one!
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Post by: Basher on January 18, 2004, 06:54:01 PM: Any links or websites to get more info on this Lightning Link? Is it that belt-fed upper? Thanks, Harley!
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Post by: Paco on January 18, 2004, 07:37:18 PM: No, it's a little $2 piece of metal that goes inside any AR-15 and changes the "semi" function to "auto". There aren't many left that are legal (registered, certifiable pre-1986), but they are cheaper than a RDIAS.
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Post by: Pancho on January 18, 2004, 08:35:22 PM: Isn't that also called an "auto sear"?
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Post by: Paco on January 18, 2004, 08:39:06 PM: A lightening link is very different (generally speaking, it's a flat piece of metal with a square cut in it) from an auto sear. However, the "RDIAS" I amentioned is an acronym for Registered Drop-In Auto Sear.
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Post by: Harley on January 20, 2004, 07:59:05 AM: Here's a Lightning Link.

(http://www.public.asu.edu/~jbovenzi/images/link1.jpg)
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Post by: leakingpen on January 20, 2004, 08:39:37 AM: no spring to go in there?
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Post by: Harley on January 20, 2004, 08:52:25 AM: No spring.
Title: AR-15 SBR?
Post by: Basher on January 12, 2004, 04:05:30 PM: So I was talking to this SWAT guy I'm always referring to about my shop teacher (who loves his AR) who wants to know about cast/forged receivers. Then I mention that I want to buy a little something for fun over time as I get the funds. He goes off on his thing telling me to get this and that. I can't afford most of it, but it sounds like fun. Then he mentions barrels. He asks if I was going to use a 10 or 14.5" barrel. My eyebrows rose about a foot.

"16 incher," I said.
"Why 16 inches?" he asks.
"Well, that's the legal limit, right?"
"Yeah, if you want to be like everyone else."
"Well, I want to get varmint accuracy out to 300 or so yards."
"Yeah, so. We get about that out of our tens all the time."
"Really?"

So he goes on to tell me that I can build an SBR and get by just fine with the $300 tax.

Now, since I only see him for an hour, I didn't get the time to ask him this, although I'll ask him this next week sometime. But I wanted to see what you guys had to say about it.

I want a Pre-ban style rifle with this 11.5" or 14.5" barrel, if i go this route. Can I build one if I pay the $300 tax? Or should I buy a Post-ban Bushy, and then buy the extra parts, and then throw those on the day or so after the ban sets? Or should I just buy everything seperate, and then build the thing from scratch when the ban sets? I've got my M70 in .308, but .308 is crazy expensive (which I knew would happen, but I had to have one anyway). .223 is MUCH cheaper, and an AR would be multipurpose. What do you guys think or suggest? Again, I'll ask him later to get the official word on things. Thanks.