good enviornments

[Surplus man]

where are good jungle or very green envornments to play in in the tucson area?

[andyhinds]

where are good jungle or very green envornments to play in in the tucson area?

Top Secret... you need to find your own AO's.  There are a couple listed.... but some aren't.  Teams use them for training..

[Gantaliano Hoff]

Good Luck with finding one though, it's stinking hard to find one anywhere these days, cause most good places are private property, or something, (especially in Gilbert)

[andyhinds]

We're kind of lucky Pima County has a website which has all the aerial photos, land ownership (private, BLM, State Trust, etc) shows major washes, roads, EVERYTHING.  Makes looking for a new AO a lot easier.

[sNiPeRWoLf88]

yea, it sucks.  surplus man and i had this great place during the summer.... it was literally a jungle!  great for summer because of all the vegetation.  bamboo, a small creek running through, tall trees, tall grass.  amazing.  but then we got kicked out.

payed it a visit a few weeks ago, and the rain had devastated it.  the creek which was usually almost still was about 100 feet wide and raging.  everything was gone.  but i think it probably goes through the same process each year and grows back.  

i'm sure theres other places like it around where the santa cruz always has water.

[Surplus man]

as  memebers of satac, sniper wolf and i use sasco and missile tank but id like to find some good dense jungle for the team. satac is really good in open desert but only m79 grenadier, sniper and myself have had jungle experience. i think we need to train in that enviornment too.

[Gantaliano Hoff]

There is one kind of cool place out in Apache Junction right off of the US 60, and we used to quad there, but I've never tried to Airsoft, it really would be perfect.

[andyhinds]

Perfect of not, you need to find out who owns it first.  You are allowed to hunt, fish, hike, off-road, etc.  On state trust land with a hunting license or a state trust land use permit.  But NO airsofting, you get a criminal trespass charge if caught ($150 fine).

[Gantaliano Hoff]

So what are the chances, would you say, that the owner would let my friends and I airsoft on it?

[andyhinds]

? slim to none, if I owned the land I'd worry that somebody would get hurt and sue me.  I'm still trying to find property right now in Pinal county, I wouldn't allow players under 18 to come out.  Some people don't think thats fair, but fair or not is a LOT more insurance for people under 18yrs old.

[sNiPeRWoLf88]

? slim to none, if I owned the land I'd worry that somebody would get hurt and sue me.  I'm still trying to find property right now in Pinal county, I wouldn't allow players under 18 to come out.  Some people don't think thats fair, but fair or not is a LOT more insurance for people under 18yrs old.

waivers man... waivers.  otherwise, you can't count ongetting any of the kids who, whether you like it or not, ARE the future of airsoft.

[andyhinds]

Future or not, if I get sued its my future thats screwed.  The only way to make sure it was the parent that signed the waiver, is to actually see them do it (i.e. show up at the event and sign it there).  All I need is a mom or dad showing up pissed cause their kid got cut or something (like a busted tooth that happend to a member of SWAIRTAC).  Everybody says their parent wouldn't do that.... unti they lose an eye.

[Lightning_Man]

Yeah, it's a sad thing anymore, but when it comes to being sued, you can't possibly have enough coverage. That said, I think if you wanted to let younger players on, you not only would need to have some waivers, you would probably want to get yourself a lawyer to insure that the waiver is up to legal snuff, and have waivers be notarized.

As for insurance, if you have the above mentioned system in place, you probably wouldn't get get any major insurance penalties. If the land had a permanent play use, you could even require a one time safety briefing for everyone and keep those attendance logs on file.

When I was in Seattle some friends and I looked into buying some land for paintballing and private range use, so I have actually done a fair ammount of reading on this. It would be very cool if some folks could kick in for a chunk of land between phoenix and tuscon where permanent or semi-permanent structures could be built and such. Land is so inexpensive here...

[andyhinds]

I've already contacted insurance companies about this, the cost to have approximatly 50players per week is $500 per month.  IF all players are 18 or older.  The other way to protect yourself is to form a LLC, but that is still no guarantee.

[sNiPeRWoLf88]

eh, talk to bucket about this.  he's done his fair share of research on it.