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Offline Basher

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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2004, 05:23:58 PM »
I'm going to side with Harley on this one. While I more than appreciate what the majority of the police do for me and my safety, they don't need to know specifics about me unless they have a reason to (violent crime, etc.). Right now, I've got a record Mr. Clean would be jealous of, and I plan to keep it that way.

If the police have any reason to be suspicious of you, then they should plan accordingly. Look at it this way. Even if gun registery were required, would it help? No. Why? Because even though the police knew that you had a weapon in your home when they came to get you, that doesn't mean you won't try to use it. Whether they know or not doesn't mean anything. That's why when people barricade themselves into their houses, responding authorities arrive prepared for the worst. No gun, no problem. The guy might have a knife, which could pose a threat to hostages, but not really to the police. They still show up in Level III-A or Level 4 Kevlar in most cases. The guy's got a gun. They show up in Level III-A or Level 4 Kevlar. Police aren't stupid. They expect the worse and plan ahead. Therefore, if a person's committed a crime, they expect them to fight back. And generally, if the person's committing crimes, they're not going to be following some gun registery law anyway, so it wouldn't be much help to begin with.

Harley's got it right. Only law abiding citizens who've been brain-washed by liberal media icons are going to register guns willingly. The criminals will just sit back and wait for the government to do the dirt work, and then they'll have a field day. I'll have none of it, personally. My life is more valuable than the guy who wants it, and I'd rather die trying to stop him than give up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Basher »

Offline Basher

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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2004, 05:26:13 PM »
Also, I know a few cops who'd go against their own if it ever came down to it. They're a tough crowd, and since they work with the dark side of humanity, they want nothing of it either. The general populace FAR outnumbers anything the government can muster. It's a matter of whether people would be willing to defend themselves or not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Basher »

Offline KenCasper

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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2004, 09:26:17 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hell I have a CCW and they know as soon as they pull me up on their computer that I have weapons. They don't need to know the exact make and model, all they need to know is that they better knock and wait for an answer. Any of you that have a CCW and have ever been pulled over know what I'm referring to.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree With Harley and Basher on this, Too Often I've read stories where the Police has kicked in doors and raided places that were suppost to be home to violent criminals, sometimes even killing innocent civilians, only to find out their database was wrong. I personally also DO NOT think that anyone needs to know what I own or don't own. If someone wants to own barbie dolls should the police know? What about a set of steak knives? OR better yet, in todays cumputer age full off computer crime, how many computers you own?

It is a BASIC privacy issue, it isn't anyones Darn Bizwax what I own, as long as it isn't illeagal (ie drugs, slaves, unregistered nuclear reactor, ect) and doesn't harm the neighbors.

Also Harley is correct about the papertrail on Firearms, Esp Since the Brady Bill (AKA "Assault Weapon Ban") was passed and required background checks. The Supreme Court mandated that it was "illeagal" for the FBI to keep records of who had background checks done, BUT they did ask that FFL dealers keep the paperwork for an Indefinite time period. As has been demonstrated during the Beltway Sniper Investigation, at a request (not a search warrent) these records were made available and used to make suspect lists based on sales of simular weapons. How would you feel if you were suddenly the prime suspect in a NATIONAL case like that because you bought that Bushmaster at Fred's Gun Shack the week before the shootings started? Now think what could happen if the Press in there brillant wizdom got hold of your name from a "confindital Informant!"

Also what records do you think were asked for when the LE agencies went to Gun Stores? They Knew what the caliber was fairly early into the investigation, so you would think they would ask for just weapon sales records or .223 right? Wrong they asked for ALL of them for periods dating back several months, even years dependant on which story you want to believe about the NICS part of the investigation.

I must say also that Those Canuks are either the BRAVEST fools every or the most foolish braves! [;)] I had heard that they estimated several MILLION weapons hadn't been turned in (or) registared in just the western half of canada, quite an amount of public opinion against that law I would think, wouldn't you??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
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Offline Harley

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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2004, 09:39:45 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoli</i>
<br />So now youre againt the police?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm in no way against the police.  What I am aganist is tyrants and thugs who hide behind badges.  Stoli, many of my good friends are cops, some in AZ, some in NY, some in many other states and some are FEDS.  Some I served with and some I went to school with.  Some I trust with my life and some are questionable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline Basher

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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2004, 05:24:07 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Harley</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoli</i>
<br />So now youre againt the police?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm in no way against the police.  What I am aganist is tyrants and thugs who hide behind badges.  Stoli, many of my good friends are cops, some in AZ, some in NY, some in many other states and some are FEDS.  Some I served with and some I went to school with.  Some I trust with my life and some are questionable.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

And being able to tell them apart is the trick. I know a few that I'd trust not only my life to, but that of my family as well. Then there are some that would have a hard time borrowing a pen from me. Unless you know them personally, I'd be very cautious. I've got my head on a swivel when they're around for the very same reason they're is as well. It's hard to trust people these days, which sucks, but that's life.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Basher »

Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2004, 11:17:34 PM »
As a retired police officer, I know all too well of the abuses law enforcement officals are capable of. By registering you're firearms, law enforcement in your area will know you possess guns, especially those "evil" kinds of firearms.  This has the very real potential of turning any contacts you have with the police into a very hazardous situation for yourself and your family.

Of course I'm not suggesting that anyone should break the laws in their area regarding firearm registration.  I'm not trying to bad mouth law enforcement either.  Be thankful we have these brave men and women there to protect and serve.  I'm just being honest about it.

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline -MAD- SARGE

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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2004, 08:41:31 AM »
People are people.  There are always the good, the bad, the ugly and the stupid, no matter where you are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by -MAD- SARGE »


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Offline Harley

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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2004, 09:00:18 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There are always the good, the bad, the ugly and the stupid, no matter where you are.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

and then there's Leadmagnet! [;)]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline yellowmonkey

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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2004, 01:05:58 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KenCasper</i>
<br />
I agree With Harley and Basher on this, Too Often I've read stories where the Police has kicked in doors and raided places that were suppost to be home to violent criminals, sometimes even killing innocent civilians, only to find out their database was wrong. I personally also DO NOT think that anyone needs to know what I own or don't own. If someone wants to own barbie dolls should the police know? What about a set of steak knives? OR better yet, in todays cumputer age full off computer crime, how many computers you own?

It is a BASIC privacy issue, it isn't anyones Darn Bizwax what I own, as long as it isn't illeagal (ie drugs, slaves, unregistered nuclear reactor, ect) and doesn't harm the neighbors.

Also Harley is correct about the papertrail on Firearms, Esp Since the Brady Bill (AKA "Assault Weapon Ban") was passed and required background checks. The Supreme Court mandated that it was "illeagal" for the FBI to keep records of who had background checks done, BUT they did ask that FFL dealers keep the paperwork for an Indefinite time period. As has been demonstrated during the Beltway Sniper Investigation, at a request (not a search warrent) these records were made available and used to make suspect lists based on sales of simular weapons. How would you feel if you were suddenly the prime suspect in a NATIONAL case like that because you bought that Bushmaster at Fred's Gun Shack the week before the shootings started? Now think what could happen if the Press in there brillant wizdom got hold of your name from a "confindital Informant!"

Also what records do you think were asked for when the LE agencies went to Gun Stores? They Knew what the caliber was fairly early into the investigation, so you would think they would ask for just weapon sales records or .223 right? Wrong they asked for ALL of them for periods dating back several months, even years dependant on which story you want to believe about the NICS part of the investigation.

I must say also that Those Canuks are either the BRAVEST fools every or the most foolish braves! [;)] I had heard that they estimated several MILLION weapons hadn't been turned in (or) registared in just the western half of canada, quite an amount of public opinion against that law I would think, wouldn't you??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I have to agree, the idea of mandatory registration could lead to some ver scary situations.
Like KenCasper said, suppose the media got a hold of you name.
Remember when the names of the CCW people were printed?
Very scary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by yellowmonkey »
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Offline Greg

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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2004, 11:26:09 PM »
I just read about these guys in SWAT Magazine. They are some brave people. These are canadian organizations which oppose gun registration and their members send letters to the government saying that they own guns and don't intend to ever register them. They also invite the government to come arrest them. So far, it hasn't happened. Let's show some support for our gun-loving brothers to the north!

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
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