Airsoft Arizona
General Airsoft Arizona => General Airsoft Discussion => Topic started by: Fresnel on November 17, 2012, 01:42:42 AM
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Okay, so OP: Zombie Hunter had its share of problems, and not minor among those were our problems with Vanguard. Now, some of this is firsthand, and which bits those are should be obvious, and some of it is hearsay from fairly reliable sources. First off, they agreed to keep our signup sheet there so that those of you who live in the east valley could go and pre-register. Now, I went down there personally and didn't see the signup sheet (or any of our handout flyers) clearly visible anywhere, but I didn't ask about it. Apparently many of you asked on multiple occasions, and were told that Vanguard wasn't a pre-order location. One or two of you fought them on the point and were allowed to pre-order there. This will be important later. At the same time, they were telling PSC that nobody was coming in to pre-order, and everyone there knew about the sign-up sheet etc. etc.
Apparently for a while they were also spreading rumors about our game, that nobody should go because it would be "unsafe". I personally saw that someone had been told that the last mission in particular would be bad, and he recommended to one of our attendees that he should "wear extra padding". Now, for those of you who attended, it was pretty obvious we didn't change the last mission, as without the corn it was admittedly pretty shitty. The civilians had no maze to navigate for their mission: "escape the AO alive", and simply ran straight for the exit, meeting no resistance beyond a few wide shots from the paramilitary as they moved to complete their own mission. And, obviously, nobody was injured.
Finally, they scheduled a lock-in for the night of our event, apparently with the purpose of occupying their employees and giving them an excuse not to attend our Op. The lock-in, it should be noted, was scheduled months after we'd already picked a day for our Op. They were supposed to be there, and they were supposed to bring both a chronograph and the pre-order money. They did neither, saying "we need to be here to help with the lock-in". Luckily, Nukeduster was gracious enough to let us use his chronograph, and even swung by Vanguard on his way out to Glendale to pick up the pre-order money... which they refused to give him, even after PSC authorized it. Last I heard, they are demanding that PhoenixShadowCompany himself go down to Gilbert to pick it up, which is a bit out of the way for someone living in the northwest valley. Either one of them can corroborate that, I'm not absolutely 100% sure how that went down.
Now here's some more of the hearsay bit: we hear that they've done this repeatedly to other groups running events - they agree to help, then they sabotage the event at every possible turn. And in addition, we hear that they've started, without any instigating event, to randomly search VIP players' belongings without cause or provocation, and without that player being present to witness the search, and that some of said players have reported items going missing after finding their bags rifled through.
So I ask, does anybody here have a similar story to tell about their own experiences in partnering with Vanguard, or, for special bonus points, can anybody give a firsthand account of what VIP employees told them about our game and why it was supposedly dangerous?
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I know I've encountered some issues in the past. My friend was convinced not to go by his girl friend who used to work at vanguard, and they were telling her that PSC "steals" and other made up stuff. I was very dissappointed to here that.
What I am really pissed about is that I went down to vanguard yesterday to talk to one of the employees there(Emily) and was met with Brian telling me that she had went home early. I was also told that she would not be in on Friday because its her half day. My friend who just went to vanguard tonight said that she was there at 6. Definitely not a half day.
Idk but it seems that vanguard has become a very corrupt place with all the little kiddys' parents' money.
Now I'm not saying that this is for sure the exact fact, but it does make you question what goes on there.
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Oh and also I did forget to mention that vanguard now has a new policy that they will now go through your bags without say and some of the more corrupt staff will take your stuff. I understand for the bag checks as a safety precaution, but when nothing has happened to cause you to need to look through bags, I just don't get why they do it anyways.
I know for sure that one of the former employees took out a few bags of the house BBs from my friends bag, saying they were not to standard and that we had to but house BBs everytime we are there.
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I'm not really surprised to have read this. Never liked the place. Just makes me wish gearbox didn't have to shut down..
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I'm not really surprised to have read this. Never liked the place. Just makes me wish gearbox didn't have to shut down..
^ Pretty much.
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Last I heard, they are demanding that PhoenixShadowCompany himself go down to Gilbert to pick it up, which is a bit out of the way for someone living in the northwest valley. Either one of them can corroborate that, I'm not absolutely 100% sure how that went down.
Okay, I've been notified this was incorrect, disregard this part.
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Oh and also I did forget to mention that vanguard now has a new policy that they will now go through your bags without say and some of the more corrupt staff will take your stuff. I understand for the bag checks as a safety precaution, but when nothing has happened to cause you to need to look through bags, I just don't get why they do it anyways.
I know for sure that one of the former employees took out a few bags of the house BBs from my friends bag, saying they were not to standard and that we had to but house BBs everytime we are there.
yeah the whole bag searching thing pisses me off and they didnt do it until the last time i went to go to kwa day and i had house bb's aswell, they were in the big bags that they give you with the 5000 rnd purchase and they said i couldnt use them and they even went as far as saying that they were not .2 gram bb's i called them out on that and had them chrono test for the weight of the bb's and they were .2. there are only about 2 people that i like there, chris being one of them cause he really doesnt follow V.I.P.'s bullshit and this other girls who's name i dont know but she is nice and gave me a free rental cause my primary was not working right :)
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I'm at vanguard often, and I can see how it changed so much since 2011 (sometimes not in good ways). Very different place, more crowded especially, it's a bigger buisness. I won't bring up the unnoticed cheating, but I agree it changed a lot. I have no involvement with the whole PSC issue though.
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About 2 weeks ago, LigaChief and i were at vanguard. I fixed a gun for a kid while i was there and showed him how to use the Avocado burst function. I took the mag out, put the barrel on the ground, and pulled the trigger. The head ref came up to me and told everyone in the vicinity of my table to do 15 pushups, said that we shouldnt be acting like we are "special forces" and that we will never be able to join the military (that has been my dream for years)and said to the other refs that i had the mag in the gun and was shooting it at a kid in his facemask.
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I have yet to personally have any specifically marring experience at Vanguard, but these stories are admittedly discouraging. If this bag search thing is really true, I will not be attending their field ever again. That is wrong, it's not in the waiver I signed, and some might even say a violation of my Constitutional rights. I was thinking about heading there the next time I had off, but maybe now I'll go down to Tempe Paintball/Airsoft instead....
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im gonna try tempe paintball cause one of the guys said he would waive the entrance fee for me cause its my first time going so if its a better experience than vanguard ill probably tell all my friends to go to tempe instead of vanguard cause its gotten progressively worse and restrictive also to many little kids that break the rules then complain about everyone else
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I have yet to personally have any specifically marring experience at Vanguard, but these stories are admittedly discouraging. If this bag search thing is really true, I will not be attending their field ever again. That is wrong, it's not in the waiver I signed, and some might even say a violation of my Constitutional rights. I was thinking about heading there the next time I had off, but maybe now I'll go down to Tempe Paintball/Airsoft instead....
Ive asked a couple people there why they think vanguard can do that and they said its a because its a "private company" and that "they could do whatever they please".
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They can only do what they please if its in the limits of the constitution. Anything else would be illegal. Search and seizure without probable cause?
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I have yet to personally have any specifically marring experience at Vanguard, but these stories are admittedly discouraging. If this bag search thing is really true, I will not be attending their field ever again. That is wrong, it's not in the waiver I signed, and some might even say a violation of my Constitutional rights. I was thinking about heading there the next time I had off, but maybe now I'll go down to Tempe Paintball/Airsoft instead....
Ive asked a couple people there why they think vanguard can do that and they said its a because its a "private company" and that "they could do whatever they please".
Actually, it's because in the waiver you have to sign, it says they can check your bags.
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It doesnt say anywhere in the waiver that they can steal your stuff...
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And you need to be present during all searches and that'd the law. Except prison.
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It doesnt say anywhere in the waiver that they can steal your stuff...
Obviously, but they can search it.
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IF I ever go there again and id kind of like to. my bags will be pad locked and they can request to search my bags in front of me. if my stuff is being rifled through while im not present, ill treat it as if they are trying to steal my stuff and they just might end up with the but of my rifle up-side thier head.
and if its not in the waiver or posted up in plain view as part of the house rules, they DO NOT have the right to search your stuff. and if they are doing it then they are breaking the law.
i think im actualy going to do a lil more reading on this part, because i think even in a waiver it is a lil scetchy.
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IF I ever go there again and id kind of like to. my bags will be pad locked and they can request to search my bags in front of me. if my stuff is being rifled through while im not present, ill treat it as if they are trying to steal my stuff and they just might end up with the but of my rifle up-side thier head.
and if its not in the waiver or posted up in plain view as part of the house rules, they DO NOT have the right to search your stuff. and if they are doing it then they are breaking the law.
i think im actualy going to do a lil more reading on this part, because i think even in a waiver it is a lil scetchy.
It is in the Waiver.
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I remember during the only and last time I went to Vanguard, they overcharged for the night, had to correct 'em, but instead of cash being refunded they gave me their "house bbs" in lieu of payment. I also remember, a buddy, Nick, having some sketchy shit pulled on him and watched him fight with the lady at the front. Some players that night were really off, punching a board that hit Red Devil in the back of the head, and some other Vantard couldn't keep his shit together and decided to blast everyone in the room with 6 grenade round sprays soloing out a few players with a personal grudge, I didn't mind it, but the look on his face of vile satisfaction like his really did something put a stigma on the place. Private or not, searches are not cool.
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IF I ever go there again and id kind of like to. my bags will be pad locked and they can request to search my bags in front of me. if my stuff is being rifled through while im not present, ill treat it as if they are trying to steal my stuff and they just might end up with the but of my rifle up-side thier head.
and if its not in the waiver or posted up in plain view as part of the house rules, they DO NOT have the right to search your stuff. and if they are doing it then they are breaking the law.
i think im actualy going to do a lil more reading on this part, because i think even in a waiver it is a lil scetchy.
It is in the Waiver.
It does say that the staff can search your stuff with permission, THEY CANNOT search without you knowing, plus I've seen some times when different staff have tried to keep my friend's items by taking them without him knowing and not telling him. Then when you ask for the item back, they say that they were "just messing around" and that "they were going to give it back".
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i read this, but im not getting whats going on tbh. can you pass me a tl;dr
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Basically there have been issues with Vanguard and personal items, as well as greed, or at least thats my look on it.
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All i know is, is that im never going to buy a gun there again and im never going to get my gun fixed there again. the guns there are 20$ more than guns online (not including tax), and last time i got my gun looked at there, it cost me 35$(+10 for a graveyard motor).
and thank you so much for the tl;dr.
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Only time Ive really had a problem there was when someone lifted a patch from my rig, this was only about 7 months after they opened though. I stopped playing there well over a year ago.
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It's not all that great either, over priced food, crowded(with underage kid), and stealing. What's really sad is that the players there are part of the problem. You have to watch your stuff from staff and other players too.
Long stor short, another friend of mine had 3 gas mags on his table. He left one and and when he came back it was gone. While I was loading m stuff up later that night, a young kid comes up to me and asks if I want to buy a gas mag, I looked at it and saw that it was, for sure, my friends. Without mentioning it, I bought It back from him and haven't see the kid since.
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Yea, I've had similar problems. one guy who wore some kind of hunter orange camo, and who is one of their "trusted players" got lit up by me and my friends when he tried running through a room we were defending. After the game was over he came up to us and said to do push ups or some kind of stupid shit. Anywho we informed him that we didnt give a shit who he was, and called him a few choice names. anyways a staff member said that they dont allow foul language, and that we were warned. the next game we were asked to leave because the "trusted player" said we were cheating. When I informed the "trusted player" that he was a m**er F**er and a homosexual, the staff member gave us a table to sit at. Moral of the story, you must fight dickheads by becoming one
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That guys the biggest a-hole you'll ever meet. I know who your talking about. The orange camo Gus think they own the place and are always hanging out with the refs. They have been told by the refs that they should tell them if anyone is cheating or whatnot. I myself have not had problems with them directly but I've seen it happen.
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Just as a bit of evidence, both of these posts were screencapped from the Facebook group for the game. The names have been removed for privacy reasons, but the posters are free to come forth and name themselves if they so choose.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh152/Fresnel149/ScreenShot2012-11-17at61321PM.png)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh152/Fresnel149/ScreenShot2012-11-17at61256PM.png)
I was also personally told by a third person that he was turned away by Vanguard staff, I heard about several more secondhand, and there were multiple complainants in the game thread here on AA, but I don't feel like sifting through 40 pages of chaff to find a post or two.
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*coughboycott*....
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*coughboycott*....
*coughcoughYEScoughcough*
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Actually during kwa day, I asked if I could pre register and they said they werent going to do signup there.
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Yea Gus was his name, f that guy!
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Actually during kwa day, I asked if I could pre register and they said they werent going to do signup there.
I did too.
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*coughboycott*....
I like this idea. We create enough animosity and take away enough of their business for their continued abuse of our community, they'll have to do something about it eventually. I know I personally won't be going back there at all after reading all this. Too far, too expensive, and too risky for it to be worth the effort anymore. Who else is in?
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*coughboycott*....
I like this idea. We create enough animosity and take away enough of their business for their continued abuse of our community, they'll have to do something about it eventually. I know I personally won't be going back there at all after reading all this. Too far, too expensive, and too risky for it to be worth the effort anymore. Who else is in?
I second this
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Vangurdle is funded by kids, its about 90% (as it seems) of their revenue, would all of us at AA really change too much in their business?
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Vangurdle is funded by kids, its about 90% (as it seems) of their revenue, would all of us at AA really change too much in their business?
No, because I see one of these posts every other month. So I think by now, most of AA isn't going to Vanguard anyway. We are pretty much boycotting it as it is, since everyone here despises it.
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They get enough business from the parents who drop their kids off to play that a few members on this forum boycotting them will likely do nothing. As I agree with some of the things being said in this thread, I do not agree that boycotting a business involved in the sport we all love is a good idea. If you have concerns about the staff or the policies they have in place, I would suggest going in and talking to the owner. We lost Gearbox and Fightertown and although I am not a huge fan of Vanguard I still do not want to see another business/field being shutdown or anything of the like. I personally have had no problems when I have played there but I have heard plenty of rumors to have my own concerns.
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They get enough business from the parents who drop their kids off to play that a few members on this forum boycotting them will likely do nothing. As I agree with some of the things being said in this thread, I do not agree that boycotting a business involved in the sport we all love is a good idea. If you have concerns about the staff or the policies they have in place, I would suggest going in and talking to the owner. We lost Gearbox and Fightertown and although I am not a huge fan of Vanguard I still do not want to see another business/field being shutdown or anything of the like. I personally have had no problems when I have played there but I have heard plenty of rumors to have my own concerns.
Well stated good Sir :)
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For a company that says they want to improve the industry here in AZ they sure do allot of things to alienate them selves. I know they all ways ask for advice but never take it. I cough them taking gear from my bag at a pickup game when I was coming off the field, needless to say the police got involved, and they were told it was illegal to do this no charges were pressed. Seeing that they still do this I guess I should of pressed charges. That said my cousin went there to pre-order for PSC's game and they told him ( Don't go to that game, they are an unsafe group), then proceeded to tell him to go to there lock in. Kind of messed up if you ask me.
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The only nice guy I know there is Jake, and he's become a bit of a douche since becoming head ref a year or so back. And yes, I have had a few items stolen from me as well (though if it's the kids or the refs, I'm not sure). I've also caught the refs once or twice snooping around my table with an eye on my mp7.
The field itself is great, and I like the layout, but the refs are all EXTREMELY biased and always seem to take the little kids' sides when an issue concerning calling hits/ surrender rules comes up, rather than the older teens/ adults who attend games there. I guess it's all about money, and the children's' parents have plenty of that. Not to mention they overcharge in my opinion.
And it's a shame too, because although I don't mind Tempe, the field is a bit too small for my taste. Maybe if they were able to expand it or something..
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Not to mention they fill HPA tanks wayyyy too quickly. I brought it to their attention last time I was there to fill a tank, as one last chance sort of thing and they looked at me like I was insane, asking them to only fill the tank at no more than 600psi per minute for safety sake, let alone they underfill the tank when they shock the tank by filling too quickly.
After taking several minutes to try to educate 3 of the employees there about how to safely fill HPA they ended up filling my tank at about 1500psi/minute anyways, and underfilled it by 1000psi once it cooled back down from being stressed so violently.
F that place.
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Wow damn. Can't that be classified as damage to property if the tank is ruined?
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Taken directly from the 2012 Player waiver.
3. Allow referees and staff to search personal bags and equipment for unlawful guns, bbs that are not house provided, and dangerous equipment, as well as BKB Enterprises property.
(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/34/Flame-Flame_on.jpg)
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Taken directly from the 2012 Player waiver.
3. Allow referees and staff to search personal bags and equipment for unlawful guns, bbs that are not house provided, and dangerous equipment, as well as BKB Enterprises property.
Direct sauce: http://vipairsoft.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012-VIP-Waiver-v.51.pdf (http://vipairsoft.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012-VIP-Waiver-v.51.pdf)
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Taken directly from the 2012 Player waiver.
3. Allow referees and staff to search personal bags and equipment for unlawful guns, bbs that are not house provided, and dangerous equipment, as well as BKB Enterprises property.
(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/34/Flame-Flame_on.jpg)
you do realize that even with this on the waver state law still requires the owner of the property to be there well the search is being done, and if said owner is not present it prosecution can range from a simple misdemeanor to a felony on the person committing the search. Weavers are great but they still have to fallow any law's and can not go over it the law. If vanguard is allowing there staff to search bags well the owner is not aware then the management of vanguard is also committing a crime by allowing it and thus is responsible. Are they trying to get shutdown?, or do they really not know the law and are committing these crimes without knowing?
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as well as BKB Enterprises property.
What is BKB Enterprises property?
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My friend's BBs were house BBs, why would they take them?
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I'm going to send a copy of this waver to my uncle, He works for the county attorney so we can see how wrong and if any of it will hold in the court of law.
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i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
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i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
way to post that on a forum where VIP employee's are... LOL
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Common guys, just a simple dye pak that someone would activate if they didn't know it was in someones bag, just thinking of course, would never suggest, Hmmmm :)
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Common guys, just a simple dye pak that someone would activate if they didn't know it was in someones bag, just thinking of course, would never suggest, Hmmmm :)
you could go epic and have like a claymore rig or something on your bag lol
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i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
way to post that on a forum where VIP employee's are... LOL
i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
way to post that on a forum where VIP employee's are... LOL
they dont know who i am, what i look like, or when ill be there so i dont think it matters
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Well, to me it sounds like you have an MP9 strapped to your vest with a one-point sling and a Mac-11 in a holster on your vest (Cross-Draw vest most likely) so, I mean hey. You're impossible to find boss!
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I am neither for or against Vanguard, only been there a couple of times, it was a bit underwhelming so I have never gone back...
The first Clause of the Fourth Amendment provides that the
"right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. . . ."
This text protects two types of expectations, one involving "searches," the other "seizures." A "search" occurs when an expectation of privacy that society is prepared to consider reasonable is infringed. [Footnote 4] A "seizure" of property occurs when there is some meaningful interference with an individual's possessory interests in that property. [Footnote 5] This Court has also consistently construed this protection as proscribing only governmental action; IT IS WHOLLY INAPPLICABLE "to a search or seizure, even an unreasonable one, effected by a private individual not acting as an agent of the Government or with the participation or knowledge of any governmental official."
Walter v.
Probably someone should look closely at the phrase IT IS WHOLLY INAPPLICABLE seems interesting...
There are certainly laws of the land and or state, such as AZ open carry or AZ concealed carry that are not enforcable if malls and business post against the laws in their mall's or business...
I DO NOT agree with someone in a private place of business searching my property, I DO however have the right of choice to never visit that business again...
Did not Vanguard cohost a successful benefit for Ron, please correct me if I am wrong on this item...
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i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
they dont know who i am, what i look like, or when ill be there so i dont think it matters
And isn't this you also? save phace face mask review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XojzZRKlV94#ws) I think that you think it's really hard to find people on the internet.
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i have a secret pocket in my bag that all my stuff goes in and the stuff that cant fit there which are my guns stay on my person...mp9 on a one point attached to my vest and my m11 in a holster on my vest as well. cant steal from me without me noticing now!!
they dont know who i am, what i look like, or when ill be there so i dont think it matters
And isn't this you also? save phace face mask review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XojzZRKlV94#ws) I think that you think it's really hard to find people on the internet.
Creep....
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Creep....
It was on the front page...
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doesnt matter my stuff is on my person so unless the thief is stealing stuff off my body my gear is staying with me. this is thread is getting intense also just saw another thread with someone asking for advice for a good walk in airsoft store the first recommendation was for vanguard because of the helpful and reliable staff i instantly countered that reply
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doesnt matter my stuff is on my person so unless the thief is stealing stuff off my body my gear is staying with me. this is thread is getting intense also just saw another thread with someone asking for advice for a good walk in airsoft store the first recommendation was for vanguard because of the helpful and reliable staff i instantly countered that reply
Yes, I applaud your 'Counter'. Telling them that you could recommend a gun better than a place they haven't been to. Why turn them away from one of the only stores left in Arizona to buy guns? Especially without recommending a different store. That wasn't constructive criticism, nor was it helpful, it was you expressing your disdain for a store, using top-notch grammar if I do say so myself.
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doesnt matter my stuff is on my person so unless the thief is stealing stuff off my body my gear is staying with me. this is thread is getting intense also just saw another thread with someone asking for advice for a good walk in airsoft store the first recommendation was for vanguard because of the helpful and reliable staff i instantly countered that reply
He was asking for an in-store place to really get a feel for the weapon. Where else do you reccomend? im quite curious.
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i still said to go vanguard to get a "feel" if you were to read my reply. My criticism on vanguard was that the staff isn't very helpful but that's because the no one really works at the store front everyone is either working the food stand, in the back, at the tech office, or supervising the field. there was one placing that i was going to recommend but i cant remember what the store was called so im searching the forums ATM to find it and post it as a reply
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i still said to go vanguard to get a "feel" if you were to read my reply. My criticism on vanguard was that the staff isn't very helpful but that's because the no one really works at the store front everyone is either working the food stand, in the back, at the tech office, or supervising the field. there was one placing that i was going to recommend but i cant remember what the store was called so im searching the forums ATM to find it and post it as a reply
Actually, people do work at the storefront and I have a very hard time believing that unless you came in at 9pm or you only stayed for 2 minutes you never encountered anyone whilst browsing the storefront. Either that or this happened a long time ago, which I feel like most of the people posting had their story happen a while ago.
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i still said to go vanguard to get a "feel" if you were to read my reply. My criticism on vanguard was that the staff isn't very helpful but that's because the no one really works at the store front everyone is either working the food stand, in the back, at the tech office, or supervising the field. there was one placing that i was going to recommend but i cant remember what the store was called so im searching the forums ATM to find it and post it as a reply
Actually, people do work at the storefront and I have a very hard time believing that unless you came in at 9pm or you only stayed for 2 minutes you never encountered anyone whilst browsing the storefront. Either that or this happened a long time ago, which I feel like most of the people posting had their story happen a while ago.
Just met with Vanguard Friday and was lied to, saying that they had no preorder money. I may be going down there tomorrow(sunday) to give them one last chance. If they dont cooperate then itll be breaking the law.
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Actually, people do work at the storefront and I have a very hard time believing that unless you came in at 9pm or you only stayed for 2 minutes you never encountered anyone whilst browsing the storefront. Either that or this happened a long time ago, which I feel like most of the people posting had their story happen a while ago.
ive been there a few times recently the KWA event was the last time i went and i didn't bother checking out the store cause it was so busy but usually its fairly calm, in fact so calm i remember once a couple of the ref's were messing with an SVD from the store and popping a mask with it in the field but i digress. i usually have to go find a employee from the food stand or the back to come to the store front to get helped with anything. there was only once when i didnt have to do this but that was because one kid was already talking to one of the employee's at the counter.
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I've had experiences like that. Happened pretty frequently. I would walk into the store and wait for about 10-15 minutes before a worker asked me if I needed anything. Every now and then I would ask the worker if they had a part for a gun, and it was always "um.. I don't know," or "let me go ask." I do not like having to tell the workers where the parts are on the wall. Hire people who know Airsoft. I've also had times when I simply wasn't helped at all, so I just walked out after I was done browsing the shelves. I have felt the urge to apply for a job there, but then I think... "I sometimes have a feeling I should do crystal meth, but then I think... Mmm, better not."
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Just met with Vanguard Friday and was lied to, saying that they had no preorder money. I may be going down there tomorrow(sunday) to give them one last chance. If they dont cooperate then itll be breaking the law.
Unless nobody actually pre-ordered.
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I've had experiences like that. Happened pretty frequently. I would walk into the store and wait for about 10-15 minutes before a worker asked me if I needed anything. Every now and then I would ask the worker if they had a part for a gun, and it was always "um.. I don't know," or "let me go ask." I do not like having to tell the workers where the parts are on the wall. Hire people who know Airsoft. I've also had times when I simply wasn't helped at all, so I just walked out after I was done browsing the shelves. I have felt the urge to apply for a job there, but then I think... "I sometimes have a feeling I should do crystal meth, but then I think... Mmm, better not."
its good to see ya green!! sucks your leaving the community i hope you'll be back though and thanks for the mp9 its working great now...also thanks for sharing my thoughts on this whole vanguard situation.
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Just met with Vanguard Friday and was lied to, saying that they had no preorder money. I may be going down there tomorrow(sunday) to give them one last chance. If they dont cooperate then itll be breaking the law.
Unless nobody actually pre-ordered.
Thats the thing, they did, well at least tried to, and were turned towards there lock-in instead. But after some calls and long arguments later, they agreed to pay the money. But still no cash....
While at the Zombie hunter game, a few people explained that they did pay at vanguard though were never signed up.
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Thats the thing, they did, well at least tried to, and were turned towards there lock-in instead. But after some calls and long arguments later, they agreed to pay the money. But still no cash....
While at the Zombie hunter game, a few people explained that they did pay at vanguard though were never signed up.
Well then make sure you talk DIRECTLY to Brian, because the employees might not know about it. So just make sure you talk to Brian.
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Thats the thing, they did, well at least tried to, and were turned towards there lock-in instead. But after some calls and long arguments later, they agreed to pay the money. But still no cash....
While at the Zombie hunter game, a few people explained that they did pay at vanguard though were never signed up.
Well then make sure you talk DIRECTLY to Brian, because the employees might not know about it. So just make sure you talk to Brian.
Thats the thing, I DID.
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I've had experiences like that. Happened pretty frequently. I would walk into the store and wait for about 10-15 minutes before a worker asked me if I needed anything. Every now and then I would ask the worker if they had a part for a gun, and it was always "um.. I don't know," or "let me go ask." I do not like having to tell the workers where the parts are on the wall. Hire people who know Airsoft. I've also had times when I simply wasn't helped at all, so I just walked out after I was done browsing the shelves. I have felt the urge to apply for a job there, but then I think... "I sometimes have a feeling I should do crystal meth, but then I think... Mmm, better not."
its good to see ya green!! sucks your leaving the community i hope you'll be back though and thanks for the mp9 its working great now...also thanks for sharing my thoughts on this whole vanguard situation.
Thanks, and I'm glad you're happy with it! Yeah I'm always happy to throw in my two cents ;)
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I've also caught the refs once or twice snooping around my table with an eye on my mp7.
To be fair, if I were a ref, I'd keep my eye on every MP7 too. With the stock bolt shooting over 400fps and swappable by popping two pins, there is no better gun to sneak around the chrono with if you wanted to make kids bleed.
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Vanguard makes their money from kids (and their parents) -people who probably don't know this site exists, and wouldn't fit in with us if they did.
Vanguard provides a babysitting service. It's not about airsoft. Brian makes his money the same way the trampoline guy makes his, keeping children occupied and happy.
Adults, while (barely) tolerated, are not Vanguard's target crowd.
The only good for us that comes from Vanguard is that it gives the little kiddies a play place and that keeps them away from us.
I'd suggest that if you do go to Vanguard though, bring the game needs on your person, and leave nothing on the tables. You can go out to your car for resupply.
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Dont see a "we are then allowed to steal and or not tell you the we seized anything so that when you leave you dont come and get it" clause anywhere in the waver.
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So does vanguard have nothing to say about these claims. I know you guys have an AA account so lets here your defense, not hearing anything is making me feel like you guys are guilty of all these accusations.
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Yes. And I know they have seen these posts too.
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I figured it all out. the trouble with vangaurd is it f**ing sucks. enough said
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Vanguard has seen it, but without hard proof why should they change anything? Nobody would listen to their side of the story anyway, I mean you'll all be against them and with each other. There's no proof of anything. I would understand if you had a GoPro camera that was recording when ANY of this happened, but alas, there is nothing.
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I was down at Vanguard for the first time a while back and I can firmly say that I will NEVER offer them my business again. I walked around the store for 5 min and the person behind the counter did nothing to make a move to see if I needed assistance and then walked off, I then attempted to get a workers attention but he was too busy texting in the back, once I grabbed his attention I proceeded to ask questions about the game play and regulations and they employee hardly made eye contact and spoke to the ground, and when I asked about the products he told me he had to go ask someone to answer my question and never returned. Great customer service.
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Vanguard has seen it, but without hard proof why should they change anything? Nobody would listen to their side of the story anyway, I mean you'll all be against them and with each other. There's no proof of anything. I would understand if you had a GoPro camera that was recording when ANY of this happened, but alas, there is nothing.
sounds like you work there ??? LOL
And yes there is hard proof. We clearly had them tell us that they were sponsoring the zombie hunter game. Then the last minute a lock in was scheduled. I've had my close friend tell me how his girlfriend was told about negative things towards our group. Along with other things.
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sounds like you work there ??? LOL
And yes there is hard proof. We clearly had them tell us that they were sponsoring the zombie hunter game. Then the last minute a lock in was scheduled. I've had my close friend tell me how his girlfriend was told about negative things towards our group. Along with other things.
I don't work there, but I know everyone who does work there, and they don't seem like the kind of people who do things like this. Now, the people who worked there a year ago, I could see this happening, but with who works there currently, I find it hard to believe things are being 'Stolen'. As far as the Zombie OP, I can understand that, I'm talking about the stealing. The Zombie OP I know nothing about, so I'm not trying to argue with you about that, because this is the first I have heard of it (This thread I mean, not just this minute).
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Don't know the refs by name(accept Chris) but its definitely the ones working there now sorry to say
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Don't know the refs by name(accept Chris) but its definitely the ones working there now sorry to say
That are stealing things? Can you identify one?
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Don't know the refs by name(accept Chris) but its definitely the ones working there now sorry to say
That are stealing things? Can you identify one?
easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.
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I am neither for or against Vanguard, only been there a couple of times, it was a bit underwhelming so I have never gone back...
The first Clause of the Fourth Amendment provides that the
"right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. . . ."
This text protects two types of expectations, one involving "searches," the other "seizures." A "search" occurs when an expectation of privacy that society is prepared to consider reasonable is infringed. [Footnote 4] A "seizure" of property occurs when there is some meaningful interference with an individual's possessory interests in that property. [Footnote 5] This Court has also consistently construed this protection as proscribing only governmental action; IT IS WHOLLY INAPPLICABLE "to a search or seizure, even an unreasonable one, effected by a private individual not acting as an agent of the Government or with the participation or knowledge of any governmental official."
Walter v.
Probably someone should look closely at the phrase IT IS WHOLLY INAPPLICABLE seems interesting...
There are certainly laws of the land and or state, such as AZ open carry or AZ concealed carry that are not enforcable if malls and business post against the laws in their mall's or business...
I DO NOT agree with someone in a private place of business searching my property, I DO however have the right of choice to never visit that business again...
Did not Vanguard cohost a successful benefit for Ron, please correct me if I am wrong on this item...
The Constitution is a limitation on the abilities of the government........ which VG is not.
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easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.
I mean can you describe to me what they look like, right now?
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You guys wonder why I stopped playing there a little over year ago.
Lets just say their "Protective net" was having BB's go through it.
That and the "Invulnerable suits" the little shit kids wear.... Simple enough.. Stop going to Vanguard. Half the ref's are high or drunk while on duty anyways. Just take a swing around the backside of their building you'll see.
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^^^^this
easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.
I mean can you describe to me what they look like, right now?
And yes, one of them being a heavier set guy, and another a slender guy with dreads(or however you spell it).
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Haha.... My friend use to try to drag me to VIP..... I'm too much of a cheap bastard to rent a gun though, and I wasn't going to swap springs in my gun for one day of CQB.....
After this thread I'm actually more interested in going. I kind of want to see how many kids I can shoot up and make cry while not getting singled out by refs. It's like another whole degree of difficulty to the game. :D
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Haha.... My friend use to try to drag me to VIP..... I'm too much of a cheap bastard to rent a gun though, and I wasn't going to swap springs in my gun for one day of CQB.....
After this thread I'm actually more interested in going. I kind of want to see how many kids I can shoot up and make cry while not getting singled out by refs. It's like another whole degree of difficulty to the game. :D
If AA had a like button...you would have my thumbs up
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Reminds me of this one kid who wasn't calling it, spawning where he choose etc.. I finally loaded a thunder B full of bb's and tossed it between his legs. He bitched out like a girl. Trumpet I hear what your saying, only problem is you have to get past the stupidity that happens. Trust me when I say this. That's very hard to do.
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Oh and also I did forget to mention that vanguard now has a new policy that they will now go through your bags without say and some of the more corrupt staff will take your stuff. I understand for the bag checks as a safety precaution, but when nothing has happened to cause you to need to look through bags, I just don't get why they do it anyways.
I know for sure that one of the former employees took out a few bags of the house BBs from my friends bag, saying they were not to standard and that we had to but house BBs everytime we are there.
I believe, but its been a while since I worked street law enforcement, but no one has the right to search anyone except law enforcement with probable cause. Breaking rules is not breaking the law and you could probably sue at the least for that type of practice. I would ask a lawyer.
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A
easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.
I mean can you describe to me what they look like, right now?
And why should he? You've been the lone voice in their defense. That alone should tell you that you may be on the wrong side .
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I've been meaning to jump in here for a while, but was a bit too lazy too.
I've heard nothing but bad things about Vanguard since I've started playing. Mostly it was about the kids. Being as hard headed as I am, I decided to head off to find out myself and signed up for one of the lock ins.
It didn't start well. I brought the average age up by at least 2 years. Some of the parents dropping off their lil s***heads bundles of joy gave me dirty looks and mumbled under their breath about me hanging out front, smoking a cigarette.
When I did go inside, I was able to jump in front of said mumblers in line, since their kid wanted to gawk at the overpriced airsoft guns before getting in line. I took this time to go over all the fine print (just to be an a****** about everything). I asked the young lady working the counter point blank twice about their policy about searching bags. She said that I would have to be present and that it only applied if I had something like a real gun, non house bb's, ect.
I ended up buying a few things before going to the staging area. The girl I checked in with helped me with the first buy. I ended up looking at a bunch of pouches and settled on just buying a shamal. She was helpful and friendly the whole time, but obviously didn't know the first thing about anything she was showing me. The second time, I got an older guy that was either the general manager or the owner (not sure). I knew what I wanted this time and got a Thunder B starter kit that was marked up a bit. Oh well, saved me shipping. He was decently knowledgeable and helped me put it together.
Getting in there late (and having done most of my prep in the lobby), most of the table were taken. I took a table towards the front windows which had a few things on it. There weren't many empty tables, so I figured it would be cool. They did the "safety orientation" and when I got back, there was a group of kids there, staring at me like I had knocked their stuff off and flipped them the bird. I ended up moving my stuff to a table with friendlier people.
The games were hit or miss. Team Death Match was alright, with some calling hit on their first (or 4th ;)) hit. Zombies was a cluster f***. The volunteer zombies were given 3-4 foot long nerf swords to hit people with. Most everyone moved in one group, making sure that only those who ran ran in the middle survived. Medic was interesting, but could have been done better. It ended up being just like zombies, with everyone being a meat shield for the medic and everyone moving in groups. By far, Attack and Defend was the best game type. It was also the one with the most cheating. When I was defending, I hit at least 4 attackers on full auto that didn't call their hits. I was too tired at that point to give a s***.
Cheating was a problem early on in the night, with kids flipping on full auto and blasting an oil barrel I was taking cover behind when they thought they had hit me. There was one kid that I personally surrendered at least 3 times in one game that didn't call it. Defenders (mostly when I was attacking) wouldn't call their hits. At the end of the night (during the last game I played), I caught a full auto burst on my left shoulder in a semi game. When I turned around to exit the arena, I caught another full auto burst in the back. This was after I had screamed "Hit" at the top of my lungs.
The safety concerns were overkill. Eye protection IN THE STAGING AREA?!!?!?!?! I could get it during chrono'ing, but all the time? The 10ft MED was also ridiculous. Most of the rooms aren't 10ft and there's relatively few angles that allow shooting at that distance. Surrendering, again, was mostly ignored and led to a ton of "I had my gun up first" arguments. With a 330 fps limit, I don't see why anything but a 3ft MED (or none at all) would be required.
The kids were terrible, most of the below 15 crowd were lil s*** heads. Period. I got dirty looks all night for no real reason. One particular lil fella kept bugging me to trade my TM SOCOM 16 for his Crossman AK. He kept going on about how it was worth $200 and that I was getting a great deal. ???
They group that I ended up running with most of the night were some high school kids that actually played at a decent level. They all took it seriously and called all hits. Talking with them in between games, they mentioned that they hated playing with the "squeakers" and how this was pretty much all they had as far as indoor arenas went, as they lived in Queen Creek. I feel really sorry for those that live in the far East Valley.
The staff was alright, but didn't really give two f***s as the night wore on. They would have to remind certain children before every game of the rules. When I sat out a couple of games, I would talk with either the head ref (who was manning the food counter) or the two that DJ'ed for the speaker system. What I gathered is that they didn't like a large chunk of their client base either and hated their babysitting duties. There was one group in particular that they didn't like known as the "gypsies". Seems they're the ones causing a lot of the problems with stealing.
On the stealing end of things, I didn't have any problems. I left my bag, with my WE M9 and derringer in it, along with my Thunder B stuff sitting on the table. Later in the night, I left my primary (with 4 TM low caps) and my tac vest at the table. My bag also had some medications that I needed to take in the morning, along with my contact stuff in it. Nothing was touched. I played at least 10 out of 12 total games and had about 4 smoke breaks, so I wasn't at my stuff constantly. It all seemed pretty safe.
Overall, I might go back for another lock in. The field is great and I didn't have too many problems that were kid related (other than cheating, but we all know how to fix that). I wouldn't buy from the store again unless it was something I really needed to the game. I get what a lot of people here are saying, though. I did check my bag before I left and kept a good eye out. I'm taking a luggage lock next time to put on my bag and running with all my mags in my vest or pockets next time. I'm not ready to declare Vanguard dead to me yet. Maybe they'll get a clue sooner or later.
TL;DR: Field is great. Kids under ~15 are terrible. Staff was decent. Park your stuff with kids that act their age.
P.S. Vanguard, if you have any problem with what I said here, please call me out on it. Everything I put up here is true and ALL the stuff that was said to me by your staff members that I stated here were either quotes or accurate paraphrasing.
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Playing with adults, much better.
Keep in mind, Vanguard doesn't 86 any of those little kids for cheating.
As for the staff, ask them how much Brian pays them to work there, then ask yourself "how much of a shit would I give for that wage?"
As for just going to hurt the yuppiepuppies and make 'em bleed, I understand... It isn't right, though.
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Playing with adults, much better.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons I got into airsoft.
As for just going to hurt the yuppiepuppies and make 'em bleed, I understand... It isn't right, though.
I would never dream about that.
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.And I'm still waiting to hear if PSC got the pre-registration money.. And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
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Did you have the honor of the lil shits using the Riot shields?
Oh and the Nerf swords.. *Slaps Forehead*
What I would like to see is a nice outdoor field somewhere here on the East valley. Kind of like what Henry does at Fighter town. I have explored a few options of purchasing land out here.
Moose you mentioned them not kicking kids out for cheating. Which is very much the truth. Though they will be the first one to yell at you for ANYTHING in the staging area. I lit off a blank 40mm round in the staging area, just full of green gas. One of the refs they had back then (The ref that was their tech at the time who stole parts from people's guns.) turn to me and said "Would you like to leave? Do that again and I will kick you out forever." Only reason he said this I assume was because the guy jumped in fear when it went off. Though, anyone who ever met him knows he looks like a pedophile. Sorry that had no relevance to the subject.
The reason I didn't go to Ron's Charity event at Vanguard... I find it hard to believe they were charging twice the admission as Fighter town and that they "Said it was all going to Ron's Family". You don't charge twice as much throw up an auction and say 100% is going to the charity. But hey more power to them if it happened. Though, we have not heard anything about it like you said Mooncruiser. Thanks but no thanks i'll donate directly.
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.And I'm still waiting to hear if PSC got the pre-registration money.. And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
not yet. I was supposed to go tomorrow but decided that it wast worth my time(had other attends to run).
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And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
Wait, did that not happen? I feel like there's a story here that I haven't heard yet.
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And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
Wait, did that not happen? I feel like there's a story here that I haven't heard yet.
vanguard had no charity event.
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Yes they did..
http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0 (http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0)
$2955 with 60 people in attendance.
Um at $40 a head that's 2400. You are saying the silent auction raised $500ish?
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News to me. Awhile back, Vanguard and Havoc/Mauraders posted that they were having a game for Ron. As Paradox said, it was Big Bucks to get in.
Now, maybe the proceeds, all or part got to Ron and Marney. I'm saying I never heard if it did or not.
Brian ought to post here that the monies got to where they were supposed to, I think he does need to answer those concerns, even if he blows off the others
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Yes they did..
http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0 (http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0)
$2955 with 60 people in attendance.
Um at $40 a head that's 2400. You are saying the silent auction raised $500ish?
I was there, it was a big auction. Lot of players, lot of items.
I'm saying I never heard if it did or not.
Oh, okay, the implication was that you had heard it had not. But since the event was held on September 1st and nobody's heard about a big fit over it (and I'd expect a big fit from someone if three thousand dollars were withheld for over two months), I think it's safe to assume that money did in fact get to the Bilodeaus.
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I've heard that evening midweek games are lacking in smallish children. I've never been during then, but from the couple of guys I've spoken to say it's better in terms of gameplay and the staff are more cooperative and friendly. This was a while back, however, I'm not sure how it is now.
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Yes they did..
http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0 (http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0)
$2955 with 60 people in attendance.
Um at $40 a head that's 2400. You are saying the silent auction raised $500ish?
Regarding The Fearfarm Benefit held for Ron recently...
Just curious, has anyone heard how much was given to Marney from the benefit that was held at fearfarm for Ron, with the event at vanguard bringing in almost $3000, at $40 a head, fearfarm at more dollars per head than vanguard should have raised a substantial amount equal to or above the $3000. figure for Ron...
Please post up the finals...
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Bob Z Moose, that was a great, insightful post. I'm glad this thread is staying mature.
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I do know we made 500$(or more) from just the raffle/silent auction alone.
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And sorry for my earlier statement, I meant to say that I didn't know vanguard had an event, and I assumed that the zombie hunter was getting mixed up and being seen as though it was at vanguard.
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Did you have the honor of the lil shits using the Riot shields?
Oh and the Nerf swords.. *Slaps Forehead*
No riot shields (sounds like there's a story there). I would have just lost it at that point. I understand the Nerf swords (to a point), but zombies could have easily been run without them. All the lights were out and almost nobody had bothered to bring a flashlight. There's a ton of blind corners and ratholes in the place, so sneaking up on people isn't a problem.
What I would like to see is a nice outdoor field somewhere here on the East valley. Kind of like what Henry does at Fighter town. I have explored a few options of purchasing land out here.
This.
Moose you mentioned them not kicking kids out for cheating. Which is very much the truth. Though they will be the first one to yell at you for ANYTHING in the staging area. I lit off a blank 40mm round in the staging area, just full of green gas. One of the refs they had back then (The ref that was their tech at the time who stole parts from people's guns.) turn to me and said "Would you like to leave? Do that again and I will kick you out forever." Only reason he said this I assume was because the guy jumped in fear when it went off. Though, anyone who ever met him knows he looks like a pedophile. Sorry that had no relevance to the subject.
I think it has a good bit of relevance. It shows what kind of people are hired to work there, which reflects on the owner's attitude and judgement.
Bob Z Moose, that was a great, insightful post. I'm glad this thread is staying mature.
Thanks... I should mention that I'm terrible at judging sarcasm on the interwebz. :-[
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Grand total counting admissions and raffle we made 1147. after deducting Fear farms half of total income and the cost of props we raised 500 for the charity account. I will be delivering the cash to Marney tomorrow at the funeral.
That said I want to make this clear, being I revived a really nasty/ lovely phone call from vanguard This thread is not endorsed by psc We will not confirm or deny anything stated, But as of this time we have not revived the money from vanguard.
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$647 in props?
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1147
-147 props
=1000
/ 2
= 500
$500 to fear farm $500 to ron $147 props does this make it clearer?
Marney her self has seen the financial standpoints from this game so I assure you everything is being sent that was raised. our agreement with fearfarm was a 50/50 split
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And yes, one of them being a heavier set guy, and another a slender guy with dreads(or however you spell it).
Slender guy with dreads? Nobody currently works there with dreads, but I know who you were talking about. That guy was fired a long time ago
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1147
-147 props
=1000
* 2
= 500
$500 to fear farm $500 to ron $147 props does this make it clearer?
Marney her self has seen the financial standpoints from this game so I assure you everything is being sent that was raised. our agreement with fearfarm was a 50/50 split
Proper punctuation would have made it more clear.
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After reviving several PM's PSC will changing there stance on this situation. I have had many messages on both facebook and on airsoft Arizona station that Vanguard has been making comments that is a defamation of our name. After reviewing the facts I and my team stand by these statements. We have been down to vanguard twice now and both times they refused to give us the money from pre registration. At this point I have taken money out of my own pocket to make up for the lost funds until vanguard staff relinquishes it. It has gotten to the point that if they do not give us our money we will be obtaining a police escort . I have revived an extremely hostile voice mail from Emily on the morning of Saturday 17 at approximation 8 am. In this messaged she went on saying that she cant believe after all they did for PSC that I would post such a thread. As you guys know this is the first time I have even posted in this topic. Now the fact that they accused us of being Thieves and a bad group. We will investigate this, if found that they did make this claim I personally will take Vanguard to court If not than we will just drop it and call it there loss. Those of you who know us know we are a good group and we run some amazing milsims. I hope these claims do change any opinions by are followers.
Thankyou everyone
Phoenix Shadow Company
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Wow.... Shit's gettin real. PSC, I'm sorry you seem to be getting the blame for this thread....
(And to clarify myself, I meant the whole make the kiddies cry thing as in teach the cheaters lessons by outsmarting and outplaying them while still following rules, therefore rendering myself untouchable by the refs. Lol. Foolhardy, at best....)
But really, with all of this VIP vs. PSC drama I feel like I'm in high school again.... Except this time it involves money and defamation.....
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Just as a bit of evidence, both of these posts were screencapped from the Facebook group for the game. The names have been removed for privacy reasons, but the posters are free to come forth and name themselves if they so choose.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh152/Fresnel149/ScreenShot2012-11-17at61321PM.png)
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh152/Fresnel149/ScreenShot2012-11-17at61256PM.png)
I was also personally told by a third person that he was turned away by Vanguard staff, I heard about several more secondhand, and there were multiple complainants in the game thread here on AA, but I don't feel like sifting through 40 pages of chaff to find a post or two.
Yeah, I was the third person, with you and Jason for the order. The whole purpose of my friend and I driving down to Vanguard was to pre-pay for Operation Zombie Hunter and just to have an excuse to play at the field since it was a while since we played there. Man, while I can see the company has grown with their new front desk and half of the staging area cut off because they were doing construction, none of the employees "knew" what I was talking about. I spoke to about five of their employees and none of them knew what I about Operation Zombie Hunter or who Phoenix Shadow Company was. Two of the employees actually handed me some flyer for some zombie event of theirs that was "going to be better anyway." BS, man.
And for the bag searching I was never aware of this. Regardless, I personally bring a lock and put it on my bag wherever I go because I've lost too many personal belongings at Vanguard. During TWO occasions I've had problems with attempted theft/THEFT there. It all started during a session at Vanguard last year where my gun died in the middle of a game, so I stepped off the field to fetch a fresh battery to only find a kid digging through my bag. The other times are the typical ones like others have posted where they would return to their tables after a game and find missing belongings. For me it was a bag of bbs (which I mark with a symbol in sharpie after buying so our bags don't get mixed up with whoever we may be sharing a table with) and a couple of speed loaders, which I mark very obviously with white paint and the letter "D" written in sharpie on them.
Anyway, if Vanguard has come to this like you guys have described, I think I'll take my money elsewhere and give someone else my business. Let's say, oh, I don't know... Tempe.
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Oh there was that time.. I threw a Thunder B and some kid after the game went over and picked it up like it was his. I asked him for it and he said no it was his. I grabbed it and showed him the core which had TPA written on it. Then promptly told him not to touch shit that wasn't his...
Yea, lots of stealing going on.
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I guess i am the lucky one....I have only had one MAG brand mag stolen from me. this is very insane.
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The fact that anything is getting stolen at all is very concerning. The last time I went there, 2 of the refs were full of themselves and thought they their shit smelled sweater than everyone elses. I was trying to clean off the fog on my glasses and the guy told me I'd have to do pushups if I dont put them back on. The fuck?
They were also total shit when the games were TOTALLY uneven. They put all the heavily geared, more experienced guys on one team, and the kiddes on the other, and me and my bro were stuck with the kiddies. We literally couldnt leave our spawn without getting lit up, and it didnt help that they werent calling their shots. Pathetic.
Unfortunately I'm going back there Sunday cuz its the only place my friend likes to go to. Will report back then.
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They were also total shit when the games were TOTALLY uneven.
lol that's super annoying. Whenever I go, I often switch to the underdog team to help them out a bit.
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Oh there was that time.. I threw a Thunder B and some kid after the game went over and picked it up like it was his. I asked him for it and he said no it was his. I grabbed it and showed him the core which had TPA written on it. Then promptly told him not to touch shit that wasn't his...
Yea, lots of stealing going on.
That would absolutely infuriate me.... Glad I never went to Vanguard when I lived in AZ
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And, if anyone told me to do pushups at a frackin' airsoft field I'd probably just start laughing. I have to ask, has anyone been kicked out for not obliging the refs of their pushup request?
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I have to ask, has anyone been kicked out for not obliging the refs of their pushup request?
Yes, my entire ex-"team" (if you can even call in that) was kicked out and then later banned. The banning was due to arguing with the refs over the pushups :P
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I have to ask, has anyone been kicked out for not obliging the refs of their pushup request?
Yes, my entire ex-"team" (if you can even call in that) was kicked out and then later banned. The banning was due to arguing with the refs over the pushups :P
(http://discoatemybaby.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/slow-clap.gif)
Wow. There is simply no other word, just... wow.
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I have to ask, has anyone been kicked out for not obliging the refs of their pushup request?
Yes, my entire ex-"team" (if you can even call in that) was kicked out and then later banned. The banning was due to arguing with the refs over the pushups :P
I'm practically dying laughing over here. What do they do when the guys they're telling to do pushups are like twice their size? I'm imagining them telling my buddy to do pushups.... He's like 6'5", 315lbs, college hammer/discus thrower.... Hahahahaha.... Wooohhhboy... ;D
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There's many, many people I've met at games that the refs (who are lil folk) wouldn't want to ask to do push ups. Much easier to enforce that rule with junior high kids. :P
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(http://discoatemybaby.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/slow-clap.gif)
Wow. There is simply no other word, just... wow.
[/quote]
DUDE you made my day!
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TL;DR: Field is great. Kids under ~15 are terrible. Staff was decent. Park your stuff with kids that act their age.
please don't give up on all us ~15 year olds. im 13 and i hate them too. I try to act mature and I do the right thing as much a possible. I also take my airsofting seriously and I hate to see cheating as it takes the fun away from me because nobody good and serious about airsoft ever wants me with them. so I love lighting assholes up and play fair as long as you do too.
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TL;DR: Field is great. Kids under ~15 are terrible. Staff was decent. Park your stuff with kids that act their age.
please don't give up on all us ~15 year olds. im 13 and i hate them too. I try to act mature and I do the right thing as much a possible. I also take my airsofting seriously and I hate to see cheating as it takes the fun away from me because nobody good and serious about airsoft ever wants me with them. so I love lighting assholes up and play fair as long as you do too.
I just finished typing the same thing and the sign that says another comment has been posted popped up. I really do not want to have a bad reputation in the Airsoft community just because I am of a younger age. I get where the whole the younger the more immature thing is coming from but there is a handful of mature younger guys in my opinion.
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I'm practically dying laughing over here. What do they do when the guys they're telling to do pushups are like twice their size? I'm imagining them telling my buddy to do pushups.... He's like 6'5", 315lbs, college hammer/discus thrower.... Hahahahaha.... Wooohhhboy... ;D
I think I've seen him with you at games. when you mentioned him I started laughing thinking about a ref telling him to do push-ups.
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TL;DR: Field is great. Kids under ~15 are terrible. Staff was decent. Park your stuff with kids that act their age.
please don't give up on all us ~15 year olds. im 13 and i hate them too. I try to act mature and I do the right thing as much a possible. I also take my airsofting seriously and I hate to see cheating as it takes the fun away from me because nobody good and serious about airsoft ever wants me with them. so I love lighting assholes up and play fair as long as you do too.
I just finished typing the same thing and the sign that says another comment has been posted popped up. I really do not want to have a bad reputation in the Airsoft community just because I am of a younger age. I get where the whole the younger the more immature thing is coming from but there is a handful of mature younger guys in my opinion.
That's why I did the "about" symbol. I KNOW there's kids that take the game as seriously. There's not a ton, but there is. I ended up playing with a few that night. Otherwise, I stand by my statement. There was a ton of silliness and general douchebaggery by the majority of the younger crowd.
As an aside, I haven't seen most of the younger members of this board act with that amount of jackassery (at least online).
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P.S. Vanguard, if you have any problem with what I said here, please call me out on it. Everything I put up here is true and ALL the stuff that was said to me by your staff members that I stated here were either quotes or accurate paraphrasing.
I appreciate the in-depth review, this is probably more typical of a normal vanguard visit. The player maturity is unquestionably an issue, it's very difficult to get them to pay attention to the rules and perhaps some form of intro class should be introduced to cut down on some of those related issues.
As for the surrender rule I do agree that it's a bit close but I'm also an adult and not 14-15 which is the majority of the turn out. Weekday nights and friday nights are much better if you are interested in having a smaller older crowd for sure.
Eye protection is required inside the staging area as a safety net against negligent discharges, better safe than sorry.
The bag searches were added to the waiver due to a few incidents of people (not just kids) bringing in things that just don't belong there for instance there have been a few times people have brought in pellet guns thinking they were okay to use. I can assure you the refs are not interested in stealing your belongings but only looking out for the general safety, as for the eyeballing of MP7s that is due to them typically shooting over limit even with the CQB bolt particularly with propane.
As far as the zombie event, as a staff member that works the front desk I never heard of or was made aware of this event and as far as our lock in's we set the date for those at the beginning of the year, as for any communication between PSC and Bryan or Emilee I can't comment or speculate on that.
We are doing our best to improve the field and quality of play, we have recently replaced the lower netting with glass windows to address the safety concerns and liven things up a bit. If you are having issues with someone breaking the rules; blind firing, not calling hits, full auto, etc. please bring this to the attention to the refs, they can't help if they don't know, if the situation is not resolved then bring it up with the head ref and then front desk staff.
We want vanguard to be fun and safe for everyone not just cater to children, most of the staff plays and cares about airsoft, if the gameplay suffers we suffer.
I hope I was able to address most of your concerns guys, we do care about the airsoft community and want vanguard to be the best that it can be.
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As far as the zombie event, as a staff member that works the front desk I never heard of or was made aware of this event
I'm not sure this helps your case, especially considering that after every report of you guys not knowing about the event, PSC called Brian and made absolutely sure that all the VIP staff knew about the event. He repeatedly assured us you all did.
and as far as our lock in's we set the date for those at the beginning of the year
I've heard this from at least one other person. Complaint withdrawn, I'll go strike it out on the OP. However, VIP should not have promised staff attendance on a day when staff could not attend. That's just dirty pool.
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We want vanguard to be fun and safe for everyone not just cater to children, most of the staff plays and cares about airsoft, if the gameplay suffers we suffer.
I hope I was able to address most of your concerns guys, we do care about the airsoft community and want vanguard to be the best that it can be.
Steve, I normally wouldn't chime in on stupid crap like this, but I used to go to Vanguard once at least once per week during mid week (Wed. & Thursday) sessions to get some more trigger time with a few of the mature (18+) players and to avoid huge player counts. That means I was investing $80 to $100 per month in Vanguards business, that's about 4 times what I pay in Gym membership fees and I'd be more than happy to go back.
I personally believe that Brian has nothing but good intentions and is a standup person, however the administration of the facility over there shows a complete lack of understanding of what the dedicated airsoft players, that have dedicated significant amounts of time and money into this hobby are seeking to find in CQB style airsoft. It would be nice to see Brian take this thread and read it too see what the general consensus is of his staff and the issues that are happening over there. I don't know about the PSC issues, but I know the issues with theft and overall mismanagement are clearly portrayed in this thread, Vanguard is at best a babysitting arena and obviously nobody cares about the nature of airsoft as a hobby that dictates players have honor, integrity of play, and respect for the game.
Unless changes are made this is how it will remain and threads like this that bag on the place will continue to pop up instead of threads talking about how professional the staff is, how good the gameplay is and how it keeps getting better.
Here's some business ideas 101 as food for thought..
1. Display all rules (Honor, Hit Calling, Integrity of Play) on big boards in the lobby, in the game arena, the restrooms, and the front door. (read it, know it, live it, or leave)
2. Have 4 or 5 specific games that you normally run with rules displayed so that if Game #1 is in play then everyone who can read will be able to read the damn rules and follow them. Don't leave this in the hands of a ref.
3. Split sessions to allow no more than 18 players on the field at any 1 point in time. Give everybody 1 hit and run fast games or split the arena into two separate fields with a wall to accomodate large player counts.
4. Set a ladies nights, Police, Fire LEO nights, 18+ only nights.
5. Fix low light capabilities to provide a better low light game play.
6. change the field once a month to keep it fresh and fair
7. If referees are going to be involved then have them patrol the floor with a riot shield and move kids from spawns, observe hit issues, and maintain game integrity, if not then what are they there for? Babysitting?
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I get where the whole the younger the more immature thing is coming from but there is a handful of mature younger guys in my opinion.
Yes, there are, just as there are people 30-something years old I see acting like a 10-year-old. Not to be stereotyping or anything :P
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We want vanguard to be fun and safe for everyone not just cater to children, most of the staff plays and cares about airsoft, if the gameplay suffers we suffer.
I hope I was able to address most of your concerns guys, we do care about the airsoft community and want vanguard to be the best that it can be.
Steve, I normally wouldn't chime in on stupid crap like this, but I used to go to Vanguard once at least once per week during mid week (Wed. & Thursday) sessions to get some more trigger time with a few of the mature (18+) players and to avoid huge player counts. That means I was investing $80 to $100 per month in Vanguards business, that's about 4 times what I pay in Gym membership fees and I'd be more than happy to go back.
I personally believe that Brian has nothing but good intentions and is a standup person, however the administration of the facility over there shows a complete lack of understanding of what the dedicated airsoft players, that have dedicated significant amounts of time and money into this hobby are seeking to find in CQB style airsoft. It would be nice to see Brian take this thread and read it too see what the general consensus is of his staff and the issues that are happening over there. I don't know about the PSC issues, but I know the issues with theft and overall mismanagement are clearly portrayed in this thread, Vanguard is at best a babysitting arena and obviously nobody cares about the nature of airsoft as a hobby that dictates players have honor, integrity of play, and respect for the game.
Unless changes are made this is how it will remain and threads like this that bag on the place will continue to pop up instead of threads talking about how professional the staff is, how good the gameplay is and how it keeps getting better.
Here's some business ideas 101 as food for thought..
1. Display all rules (Honor, Hit Calling, Integrity of Play) on big boards in the lobby, in the game arena, the restrooms, and the front door. (read it, know it, live it, or leave)
2. Have 4 or 5 specific games that you normally run with rules displayed so that if Game #1 is in play then everyone who can read will be able to read the damn rules and follow them. Don't leave this in the hands of a ref.
3. Split sessions to allow no more than 18 players on the field at any 1 point in time. Give everybody 1 hit and run fast games or split the arena into two separate fields with a wall to accomodate large player counts.
4. Set a ladies nights, Police, Fire LEO nights, 18+ only nights.
5. Fix low light capabilities to provide a better low light game play.
6. change the field once a month to keep it fresh and fair
7. If referees are going to be involved then have them patrol the floor with a riot shield and move kids from spawns, observe hit issues, and maintain game integrity, if not then what are they there for? Babysitting?
Dave this is the best post in this entire thread.
The problem with VIP is that I dont see anything changing, I agree that Brian's intentions are good BUT with the influx of kiddies that play there its to easy to keep it the way it is and keep selling.
When Steelworks was at its highest we would play there once every week or so, I have not been in awhile BUT now I am intrigued to see what all this fuss is about.
I know one thing I severely doubt they will be making me do any push ups as I am sure I could out lift the entire staff
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As an employee of Vanguard I am not commenting about this thread or arguing with anybody.
In response to Dave some of the ideas you have listed have or are already been taken care of to our best ability.
1. General Airsoft Rules for our field are displayed within the staging area on both sides for every customer to see. It is a BIG board.
3. We have taken extreme notice with the large amount of players recently and are doing out best to control the large quantity. So we have now started splitting the games between the sides. One side of the staging area is considered Alpha and the other Bravo. Typically we split between 15-20 players depending on the crowd.
5. We do our best to accommodate low light games.
6. The field is changed every week, at the beginning of the week. We move around barrels, desks, toys, blocking doorways, blocking windows, ECT. It's physically impossible to move the walls, due to them being nailed to the floor.
7. Referees are sent into the field almost every game possible. Depending on the player count and number of Referees on staff typically depends on whether or not they get sent in. But I assure you they are sent in as much as possible. When they are in there they are looking for any type of violation; such as, not calling hits, blind fire, not surrendering, safety issues, fighting, ECT. Refs move about the field with a riot shield that says "Referee" on it.
Like I said before, I'm not commenting about this thread but I am simply answering some of Dave's ideas.
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Steve, since you quoted me, I feel compelled to respond. I'm glad you liked my review. Honestly, I had a pretty fun time. There was a lot of things I could've done on a Saturday night that wouldn't have been as fun.
Honestly, I don't know how you expect a "class" to cure the problem with the rules. Here's an idea: make the parents of kids under 15 stay and watch their lil darling play. As soon as Suzy soccer mom hears lil Johnny scream at the top of his lungs "This f** isn't calling his hits!" or "You're cheating, you m***** f*****!", I think a lot of problems will be solved. That or how about cheaters actually sit a game out? The fact that these kids are basically left to their own devices and allowed free run of the field is the worst part of VIP. I just think that a bunch of yuppies treating you like a babysitting service with guns isn't the best way to run things.
The surrender rule is ridiculous and there isn't really a defense for it beyond aforementioned yuppies. If lil Johnny comes home with welts and a couple of blood blisters from getting hit at what, in real life, is considered CQB distances, she won't let the lil f***** tike come back. We get it. That being said, if the kids can't handle the nature of the game they need to pick up another hobby or sport. 330 is under spec for most guns that I could buy at your store. You guys either need to change this or accept that we will continue to complain about the MED or the fps limits.
I would love to be able to come out on week nights, but I have this little thing called school and another called work. The lock in started a couple of hours after my shift ended. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to come. Aside from that, your session prices are pretty put of step for what most people can afford. 20 something for 3 hours and the gas to get there and back is pretty far out. That and I can't bring my own water, unless its sealed? How deep of pockets do you think the average player in their 20s have?
The bag search thing isn't an uber sticking point with me. I get that you need to keep everything safe. What you didn't say is under what circumstances you would search a bag. That's the major sticking point for most of us.
Eye protection in the staging area is ridiculous. If you had better control over the kids, I wouldn't have to wear my goggles constantly. How about providing shooting glasses for guest use so I don't have to wear goggles that get uncomfortable eventually?
Oh and something I forgot to put in my original post: what's with the "trusted players" thing. There was a 12 year old kids there that the staff said "was here every weekend". When it came time for semi only games, this kid was allowed burst fire. He pestered the staff into letting letting him play as a zombie every game (with a nerf sword). Not catering to the children, eh?
Ocean, I got to say, I never saw a ref in the field once and low light games were a pain. No light of any kind and players without lights were S.O.L. Kinda lame.
Dave had a ton of great suggestions. Just saying.
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The surrender rule is ridiculous and there isn't really a defense for it beyond aforementioned yuppies. If lil Johnny comes home with welts and a couple of blood blisters from getting hit at what, in real life, is considered CQB distances, she won't let the lil f***** tike come back. We get it. That being said, if the kids can't handle the nature of the game they need to pick up another hobby or sport. 330 is under spec for most guns that I could buy at your store. You guys either need to change this or accept that we will continue to complain about the MED or the fps limits.
I second this. It's airsoft, not laser tag. It's going to hurt, you are going to get hit with fast flying plastic (not saying safety isn't a good thing). The surrendering causes more disputes than saves injuries imo, for example, two people saying at the same time leads to "I said first blablabla" The only time I would find it acceptable is if the person has their back turned.
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Steve, since you quoted me, I feel compelled to respond. I'm glad you liked my review. Honestly, I had a pretty fun time. There was a lot of things I could've done on a Saturday night that wouldn't have been as fun.
Honestly, I don't know how you expect a "class" to cure the problem with the rules. Here's an idea: make the parents of kids under 15 stay and watch their lil darling play. As soon as Suzy soccer mom hears lil Johnny scream at the top of his lungs "This f** isn't calling his hits!" or "You're cheating, you m***** f*****!", I think a lot of problems will be solved. That or how about cheaters actually sit a game out? The fact that these kids are basically left to their own devices and allowed free run of the field is the worst part of VIP. I just think that a bunch of yuppies treating you like a babysitting service with guns isn't the best way to run things.
The surrender rule is ridiculous and there isn't really a defense for it beyond aforementioned yuppies. If lil Johnny comes home with welts and a couple of blood blisters from getting hit at what, in real life, is considered CQB distances, she won't let the lil f***** tike come back. We get it. That being said, if the kids can't handle the nature of the game they need to pick up another hobby or sport. 330 is under spec for most guns that I could buy at your store. You guys either need to change this or accept that we will continue to complain about the MED or the fps limits.
I would love to be able to come out on week nights, but I have this little thing called school and another called work. The lock in started a couple of hours after my shift ended. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to come. Aside from that, your session prices are pretty put of step for what most people can afford. 20 something for 3 hours and the gas to get there and back is pretty far out. That and I can't bring my own water, unless its sealed? How deep of pockets do you think the average player in their 20s have?
The bag search thing isn't an uber sticking point with me. I get that you need to keep everything safe. What you didn't say is under what circumstances you would search a bag. That's the major sticking point for most of us.
Eye protection in the staging area is ridiculous. If you had better control over the kids, I wouldn't have to wear my goggles constantly. How about providing shooting glasses for guest use so I don't have to wear goggles that get uncomfortable eventually?
Oh and something I forgot to put in my original post: what's with the "trusted players" thing. There was a 12 year old kids there that the staff said "was here every weekend". When it came time for semi only games, this kid was allowed burst fire. He pestered the staff into letting letting him play as a zombie every game (with a nerf sword). Not catering to the children, eh?
Ocean, I got to say, I never saw a ref in the field once and low light games were a pain. No light of any kind and players without lights were S.O.L. Kinda lame.
Dave had a ton of great suggestions. Just saying.
i gues instead of 15 and under why not 12 or 13? i mean to say that it is those squeakers who mess the game up most of the time. im only a beginner in airsoft but im completely honest and have integrity for being a 15 year old. some people mistake me for being at least 17 or 18.
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Yes, my entire ex-"team" (if you can even call in that) was kicked out and then later banned. The banning was due to arguing with the refs over the pushups :P
Actually, I think I know who you are and why you were banned. Was this within the last 3 or 4 months?
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All of you bring up excellent points, my major issue are the refs treating me like I'm some 12 year old delinquent who doesnt know his ass from his elbows. I was threatened to do pushups after trying to clean the fog off of my safety glasses while in the waiting area. Am I not allowed to see? Its kind of hard to reload my weapon or do anything at all when my glasses are covered with fog.
I also think that the sit-out for cheaters is an excellent idea. I am going to vanguard this sunday with a buddy, and I swear to god, if some ass clown doesnt call his shots, I'm walking up to him and unloading on him point blank, and I don't give a shit what anyone says. You shouldn't be doing that, and they shouldnt be getting away with it. I've told refs about cheaters and they do nothing about it. Multiple refs, I might add. The only saving grace that time was the kidness of experienced players who felt sorry for our team and decided to help.
I love the field, I really do, but some EASY. EASY adjustments can be made to make the game a hell of a lot better and fun for the real, dedicated airsofters while still retaining your squeaker customers, and most of these changes have to do with the refs.
If I may make a suggestions, but its probably been suggested before, if you feel the absolute need to search someones bag, at least tell them you are doing so in their presence when a match is over. There is literally no pro to doing it while they are in game, because anything you find you can easily ban while they are right there, or they will have it on them in the field. Tell them you are doing it, and do it in front of them. This still retains your bag searching policy while stopping your corrupted butt tickling refs from stealing peoples belongings.
I apologize for being so vulgar in my post, but it really turns my toilet.
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Yes, my entire ex-"team" (if you can even call in that) was kicked out and then later banned. The banning was due to arguing with the refs over the pushups :P
Actually, I think I know who you are and why you were banned. Was this within the last 3 or 4 months?
yes, I was not present at the game, however
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Dave I applaud your post sir, the one post that seems very constructive
Here are a few issues that I see.
I am a youth pastor for my local church and I have some younger students who want to airsoft. Bringing them to AA games is not a possibility and neither is them coming to the LC series.
The first thing I thought of was to bring them to vanguard. This is the first thing I see here, vanguard is not geared towards experienced players at all. If you want to play against "dedicated" and "veteran" players don't go to vanguard. period
I took some of my students about two weeks ago and they had fun. They got to shoot a bunch of kids near their age, and I had a decent time running with them shooting people.
This brings up the second issue, the refs and staff
I'm not gonna sit here and tell you guys that I am some "high speed airsofter" or a whatever, I've been playing for a while, gone to some LC events and got to be part of a team. I am also an adult
When you walk into the place all the staff are high school aged people. The front desk girls all knew what they were doing and were helpful, no complaints there. I do have complaints about the refs on the field.
When we first got in we went to the chrono station. As we were at the chrono station the refs started yelling at everyone to line up for the next game, "or your gonna sit out". I look at the line for chrono and there are at least 10-15 people waiting. I look at that as poor organization and planning
At this point I have an empty m4 midcap in my hand and when I get up to the chrono a staff is there. The staff is some younger guy probably in high school, he tells me he dosen't have a speedloader or any house bb's to chrono with. I'm used to going to LC games were you show up and the guys running chrono are ready to go, not some agitated HS student trying to tell me I need to get back in line, because he isn't prepared to run a chrono station and now the line is huge.
Finally got all the FPS stuff figured out and got the guns chronoed and we had managed to miss 2 games. I figured meh my bad. The worst part was one of the refs, I don't know his name but he was constantly rude. at one point I called him out because of the way he was talking to some little kids.
He told the kids to do some push ups at some point because of the eye pro in the staging area rule. meh, that seems kinda silly but whatever kids should keep their eye pro on anyways. But then after another round he comes by these kids and tells them again to keep eye pro on in the staging area.
I get how frustrating it can be working with teens, thats what I do daily, but the next thing he said is what pissed me off. He said something like, "didn't I tell you to do push-ups already? ok, whatever you all look the same anyways" and the way he said it was so freaking condescending it pissed me off.
I asked him why he would talk to those kids like that? he changed his attitude and tone when he talked with me and stumbled across some fake excuse saying he didn't mean it in a mean way etc... but I didn't believe him and made the point that these "kids who all look the same" are your customers keep that in mind.
He said ok and walked away. Cool the rest of the day he left the kids alone and left me and mine alone also, seemed to work out for the best.
I'm not trying to say that I'm some badass that calls out the dudes in charge, the point I'm making is I spent a good amout of money and the last thing I want to some high school kid, who thinks he's the "kewlest" or whatever walking around and being a jerk to people.
There was another ref with longer hair there who almost every time I thew a thunder b, went picked it up and gave it to me at the end of the session, thank you sir whoever you are.
Overall I enjoyed my sessions there with my youth students and they had a good time. My students and myself do not view the refs at Vanguard as professionals in any way. The front desk staff was young but very helpful and knew what they were doing.
TL;DR: two issues with vanguard: 1. if you are an "experienced player it's for younger kids, don't go, stick with AA games and the LC series 2. They need to get their refs organized and give them an attitude check
Just to clarify this post is not meant to "flame" or attack anyone at all, I am giving my review on the place from my perspective as an adult who has been airsofting for some time.
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yes, I was not present at the game, however
Well I remember some group of people all got banned, but it wasn't because they wouldn't do push-ups. It was because they weren't following the rules, weren't listening to refs, and were talking back to the refs. So I think they should have gotten banned, and I was there to see it happen. I think one of them had a cardboard and duct-tape vest, but that might not have been one of them.
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yes, I was not present at the game, however
Well I remember some group of people all got banned, but it wasn't because they wouldn't do push-ups. It was because they weren't following the rules, weren't listening to refs, and were talking back to the refs. So I think they should have gotten banned, and I was there to see it happen. I think one of them had a cardboard and duct-tape vest, but that might not have been one of them.
Yeah, that's them. And what you say makes a lot of sense, hence why I left the group. They only told me they refused to do push ups, and I was not present at the time
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Yeah, that's them. And what you say makes a lot of sense, hence why I left the group. They only told me they refused to do push ups, and I was not present at the time
Yeah, I personally had a few problems with them, but none that were too severe. They got into it with 2 or 3 refs, just being all around assholes to 'em.
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Got back from having an 8 hour session yesterday, and boy am I sore. I had a lot of fun... up until the 4 o'clock period hit.
Quite a few highly experienced regulars started playing, and they were "in the pants" with the staff, so they used that and cheated to high heaven. They would constantly not call their hits and bitch at people all the time for the slightest things. At one point I surprised one around a corner, I shot him in the torso about 3-4 times before he started shooting at me back. We exchanged fire at each other for about 3 seconds before I said "Dude.. you're out." and he replied with "Yeah, I guess...." and grudgingly walked off. WTF? The refs were also incompetent. They split the teams so the rental guppies were in one team, and the experienced 1337 tactic00l in-the-pants operators on the other. Me and my buddy got stuck with the guppies, we were the only experienced airosfters in that team. Nothing happened except spawn camping, spawn camping, and more spawn camping. After EVERY SINGLE ROUND I told the refs that the teams were incredibly uneven and we were doing nothing but getting spawn camped, they even saw it on their monitors. They said they'd fix it but never did a single damn thing about it. They continued to camp us in all games up until they suddenly all left a 6:30 and the whole place was empty except me and my 2 buddies.
I think its safe to say that everyone's biggest problems are the refs, and thats what it really boils down to it seems.
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I think this thread has basically run it's course, but I'll throw in my feedback quick.
The ref's are Vanguards main CONTROLLABLE issue. I stress controllable because some of the above issues really can't/shouldn't be controlled, IE spawn camping. Making no attempt to balance the teams should be addressed but you can't MAKE the kiddies play effectively. I know that from experience. I'm not going to point fingers at specific people because that's really besides the point. Really what it boils down to is Vanguard needs an actual manager. Period. Nobody working there (that I've met) is mature enough for that role. For example, my main grief with them:
I wear prescription glasses and have yet to find a full facemask that comfortably fits me. So, I run with sealed goggles and a thick shemagh around my face at all times, double wrapped around the mouth area. It's not hard plastic by any means but it's plenty thick to absorb a pretty decent hit. Their rules say you have to have full face protection. With this setup, my face is completely covered. That meets their rules in my eyes, plus I'm a concenting adult and already signed their waiver (not that they even check that most of the time in my experience). To me, it seems like I should be set but if they feel otherwise, that's their call. I just won't play there if that's the case.
If they just flat out said yes or no, I would have no problem with that. The problem is they don't. Take for example the last time I was there. I showed up on Saturday intending to play all day. I ask at the register before paying if the shemagh will suffice and show them the shemagh. The girl decides that is acceptable so I pay for both sessions. I play through the entire first session without issue. At one point the ref is standing next me on the field playing, no issues. End of the session, new ref comes on duty. He arbitrarily decides the shemagh (that I've been using for 4 hours now at this point) is not acceptable. I explain it was OK'd by the girl at the front but he won't budge. So I pack up and go up front to ask for a refund for the second session since I can't use the face protection I use. They tell me they can't give me a refund, but they will give me a credit for a free roll over next time.
Bullshit.
You are refusing to provide me with the service I paid for, I want my money back. Period.