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Offline azsarge

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« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2004, 10:59:10 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SHIFTY1944</i>
<br />Hey its just airsoft! who friggin' cares!
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Hallelujah![8D]

I'm over it.

edit:  Basher, you either know a hell of a lot about the topic at hand, or you know enough to come up with some good BS.  [:D]

Either way, good show.

I'm not going to refute anything that has been said here, I simply do not know the right answer.  This is, however one of the best discussions we have had, about which not many of us have anything to say but opinion.  This is the stuff the "General Discussion" area is made of![8D]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »
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Offline -MAD- SARGE

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« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2004, 12:58:25 PM »
Some days if the weather was too hot the B24 with a full load of fuel could not take off at all, since not enough lift could be created to over come the load.  That's something that most people wouldnt think about when they get into an airplane, but I hope my pilot does.  So, in all Basher is correct about the densitys of air when hot and cold.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by -MAD- SARGE »
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Don't be an Escalefter.

Offline Basher

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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2004, 09:12:04 PM »
AZSarge,

Actually, it's basic physics (a subject I realize is not everyone's cup of tea). By giving the BB some back spin while it's in forward motion, the speed of the BB combined with the fact that the BB is spinning "forward" on the bottom half would mean that the air being "pushed" forward underneath the BB is fighting the air moving past it due to forward motion. The equates to a percieved slower airflow over the bottom of the BB.

On the other hand, the spin imparted on the BB on the TOP half is being "pushed rearward" (you may have to picture a BB in your mind to get any of this). Thus, when combined with the BB's forward flight, you get a faster moving section of air on top of the BB, creating a low pressure area. And hence, it acts somewhat like an airfoil.

This is similar in concept to a Helicopters blades while in forward flight. Picture looking down at a helicopter from directly over the rotors. Now, make the blades spin counter-clockwise. When the chopper is moving forward, the right side of the rotor would be spinning in the direction of flight. This combined with the forward motion means that the right side blades are spinning faster (in effect) that the left rotors. And the left rotors are traveling slower. This may help you visualize the BB (looking down on the rotors is the same as looking at the BB from the side).

[:D] I hope I didn't confuse anyone too badly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Basher »
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Offline KamikazeSM

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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2004, 11:14:09 PM »
Actually its even more exaggerated with helicopters: it causes disproportionate lift and if you're not careful, can cause it to flip.  Any helicopter pilots out there? I forget the term, but my dad used to recite a lot of his helicopter training information to me to learn it better.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KamikazeSM »
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Offline azsarge

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« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2004, 12:02:43 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KamikazeSM</i>
<br />Actually its even more exaggerated with helicopters: it causes disproportionate lift and if you're not careful, can cause it to flip.  Any helicopter pilots out there? I forget the term, but my dad used to recite a lot of his helicopter training information to me to learn it better.
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Your dad was/is a helo driver?  Cool![8D]

Basher, I am more than familiar with Bernoulli's Principle (aka "Bernoulli Effect").  I simply disagree wiht how it relates to a 6mm airsoft BB.  I simply don't think the effect in this case would be anything worth noting.  


It's like staring at the sun!   [8D]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »
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Offline KamikazeSM

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« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2004, 01:28:32 AM »
It's the reason that hop up does work though.  I don't think the effects of hop up are negligible in any capacity.  Same thing for baseball pitches.  sinkers have topspin, etc.  Of course, the effects are a little more exaggerated by the stitches.  As far as weather goes, don't know bout that...

Yeah, my dad was on and off getting helo trained and now he's getting serious about it.  I'm still workin on the helo insertion w/ him, but I gotta find a suitable game when I'm back in town.  Only problem is that summer is so dang hot and the helo he has access to right now can barely provide enough lift for the both of us on a hot day, let alone w/ my gear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KamikazeSM »
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Offline azsarge

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« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2004, 02:18:31 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KamikazeSM</i>
<br />It's the reason that hop up does work though.  I don't think the effects of hop up are negligible in any capacity.  Same thing for baseball pitches.  sinkers have topspin, etc.  Of course, the effects are a little more exaggerated by the stitches.  As far as weather goes, don't know bout that...

Yeah, my dad was on and off getting helo trained and now he's getting serious about it.  I'm still workin on the helo insertion w/ him, but I gotta find a suitable game when I'm back in town.  Only problem is that summer is so dang hot and the helo he has access to right now can barely provide enough lift for the both of us on a hot day, let alone w/ my gear.
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Don't tell me it's a [gag] Robinson!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »
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Offline KamikazeSM

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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2004, 03:45:21 AM »
Nope. It's a schweizer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KamikazeSM »
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Offline azsarge

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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2004, 10:04:30 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KamikazeSM</i>
<br />Nope. It's a schweizer.
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AAAAH!

My father told me to never get in any helo that wasn't made by Bell or Sikorsky.  This was back in the day, so Boeing is ok now, too.[8D]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »
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Offline TheRev

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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2004, 12:06:36 PM »
It's called "P" Factor. The disproportionate lift is created by the forward moving blade while the rearward moving blade is, in effect, stalling. The movement of the helo has a tendancy to want to move (or tilt) in the direction of the stall. All prop driven aircraft have to deal with this effect. In a single engine prop plane (such as a Cessna), the pilot has to correct for this factor on take-off by adding some right rudder to keep the plane on center. It's very elementary flight physics (advancing blade = lift, retreating blade = stall). "P" factor...

You <b>WILL</b> be tested on this!

TheRev
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TheRev »
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Offline Spartigusxcv

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« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2004, 04:25:03 PM »
Wow who would have ever thought that a simple idea would cause such a discussion. This is really interesting stuff, I'm learning more on these forums than I am in school haha.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Spartigusxcv »
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Offline azsarge

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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2004, 12:07:43 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Spartigusxcv</i>
<br />Wow who would have ever thought that a simple idea would cause such a discussion. This is really interesting stuff, I'm learning more on these forums than I am in school haha.
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As interesting as all of this is, I wouldn't go around spewing this info as truth until you cross-check it.  Especially what I said[:P]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »
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Offline Spartigusxcv

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Just a thought...
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2004, 08:00:06 PM »
I was thinking today, and as those of you living in az know there was a pretty big storm about us. And a thought came to me does humidity lower fps? and if so how much, i just figured that if the air was thicker becuase of it the bb wouldn't travel as easily as if it were really dry (like it usually is). Oh well just curious. If anybody would care to enlighten me that would be great.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Spartigusxcv »
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\"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.\"
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