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Offline Harley

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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 06:57:59 AM »
Yep, he definitely lost his lower right leg.  I don't think the truck was on fire though, maybe smoking, but not on fire.

Either way, I concure with Me-Ushi's statements.  Rules of war??? What's that all about.  Either you're at war or you're not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline Paco

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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 08:36:10 AM »
Capture him???  After his wounds and getting hit by truck shrapnel, 30mm cannon fire and losing his leg, I don't think he'd survive much longer.  I think they did him a favor by finishing him off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 09:23:53 AM »
true.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline Farslayer

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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 09:29:07 AM »
Wow, really graphic.  That is what war is about.  Killing people, plain and simple.  Not "glorious" at all.  Pretty horrible stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2004, 09:48:20 AM »
no, not glorious.  but it IS war. in war people die.  Often gruesomely.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline HavHav

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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 10:04:15 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paco</i>
<br />Capture him???  After his wounds and getting hit by truck shrapnel, 30mm cannon fire and losing his leg, I don't think he'd survive much longer.  I think they did him a favor by finishing him off.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Exactly what I was thinking. Poor guy was better off getting blown apart then having some poor farmer child stumbling upon the body. And the guy looked like he was screaming for his life (reaching hand in air and his other hand grasping his chest)...Kinda sad to watch, but it needs to be done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by HavHav »

Offline azsarge

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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 11:04:37 AM »
I doubt a group of ground tropps would be re-routed to capture one immobilized Iraqi.  It is not worth it, and like someone said above, would be a tremendous waste of manpower.  If a unit was nearby, they still wouldn't do it.  By the sound of the radio chatter, it appears that the mission of that crew was to destroy targets.  What's the point in having the most powerful and successful military in world history if you won't use it to take out the enemy.

For what it's worth, I understand your argument/questions.  However, we as civilians are not asked to understand the rules of warfare.  It's not up to us.  All we need to do is make living in freedom the most enjoyable experience possible while our troops guarantee it will be there tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »

Offline Farslayer

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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 12:04:20 PM »
Doesn't the A-10 Warthog fire the same cannon and ammo?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2004, 12:20:24 PM »
similar ammo, but not as long, as they use a lighter weight ammo for the apache.  the apache also has a greater range of ammo type.  also, the avenger thats mounted on the warthog has a higher  rof compared to the apache, but unlike the apache, can only fire at top rate, whereas the apache can run a lower rate when needed for ammo conservation (as it did in this video)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline DiMeNTioN

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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2004, 12:20:58 PM »
Maybe this will shed some light on the topic.  I recently found this video on a website given to me by a friend of mine.  Keep in mind this page is pro-humanitarian and the person who edited the video edits out [writhes on the ground] "lying next to his gun" just to make his case that much stronger but nonetheless the soldiers clearly broke the law.  I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same thing, but at some point you have to draw the line.

WARNING:  SEMI-GRAPHIC  http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le5365.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by DiMeNTioN »

Offline Paco

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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2004, 01:38:14 PM »
I will bet you $1M that the interview with the soldier was 100% taken out of context with what was seen in the video.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2004, 01:49:57 PM »
of course it was.  thats journalism.  the cheers do upset me a bit.  but it looked to me like the guy was trying to reach his firearm.  if the soldier made that judgement, then he was right to fire.  taking a few shots at that range and missing that badly though...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline Farslayer

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« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2004, 09:34:17 PM »
Upon showing the helicopter footage to my wife, who ran from the room screaming, it looks like that second guy who got smoked near the tractor was trying to pull out a piece of cloth or something and wave it around.  Possibly a white flag or something?  Whatever color it was, it think it turned red very quickly.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline azsarge

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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2004, 09:50:46 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by leakingpen</i>
<br />of course it was.  thats journalism.  the cheers do upset me a bit.  but it looked to me like the guy was trying to reach his firearm.  if the soldier made that judgement, then he was right to fire.  taking a few shots at that range and missing that badly though...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You're right.  There are dark moments in humanity.  Sometimes emotions like that are simply the result of sustained firefights, where US tropps could have lost buddies, or been through some intense combat.  An enemy kill sometimes provides a bit of elation (and encouragement) during a hectic time.

About the A10, there are different types of ammo used, all being 30mm x 173.  API/DU, HEI, and TP rounds can be fired.  The last obviously not being used in combat.  
API/DU-Armor Piercing Incindiary/Depleted Uranium
HEI-High Explosive Incindiary
TP-training Practice

Apache ammo:  which IS shorter, as leakingpen stated above.
M789 (HEDP) High Explosive Dual Purpose  
M799 (HEI) High Explosive Incendiary  
M788 (TP) Target Practice

DU is not always used.  The M230 system uses 30mm x 113.


the ROF is slower on the M230, as it is a chain gun, operates by a chain similar to that of a bicycle.  The GAU-8 is a gatling-type, and thus has a much higher ROF.

BLAH

BLAH

BLAH

Not that anyone cares[:P].
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »

Offline Greg

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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2004, 11:25:53 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DiMeNTioN</i>
<br />Maybe this will shed some light on the topic.  I recently found this video on a website given to me by a friend of mine.  Keep in mind this page is pro-humanitarian and the person who edited the video edits out [writhes on the ground] "lying next to his gun" just to make his case that much stronger but nonetheless the soldiers clearly broke the law.  I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same thing, but at some point you have to draw the line.

WARNING:  SEMI-GRAPHIC  http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le5365.htm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

WTF!?! [:(!]

The editing was so horribly obvious..

If that was right off CNN, then why does the top of the page read "NEWS YOU WONT FIND ON CNN." Funny how some people can be so far left that they think CNN is part of "The Right-Wing Consipiracy." I mean.. It's CNN for god's sakes! CNN!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
-Greg of Christian\'s Team