Airsoft Arizona
Airsoft Hardware => Accessories & Gear => Topic started by: -Wraith- on March 19, 2005, 04:48:32 AM
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I was considering buying one those blackhawk vests from Airsplat, since they are cost effective ( fancy word for cheap ) and they sound good.
Anyone have any opinions, or has anyone used them?
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There are no less than exactly eight billion different Blackhawk vests. Which one in particular did you have in mind?
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Let me pre-answer here and say that if it's not from their S.T.R.I.K.E. lineup, don't bother.
If you wanted to get a TAC vest, I'd go with the TAC FORCE over the BLACKHAWK. No, seriously. It's about half the price, and probably just as good (being made by Lo-pans cousin Sing-we, rather than Lo-pan himself).
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Let me pre-answer here and say that if it's not from their S.T.R.I.K.E. lineup, don't bother.
If you wanted to get a TAC vest, I'd go with the TAC FORCE over the BLACKHAWK. No, seriously. It's about half the price, and probably just as good (being made by Lo-pans cousin Sing-we, rather than Lo-pan himself).
But I highly doubt the Tac-Force gloves are quite as good as my Ting-peh made KEVLAR SOLAG's! 8)
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Let me pre-answer here and say that if it's not from their S.T.R.I.K.E. lineup, don't bother.
+1.
I was looking at their vests, and all but the strike ones blow. It just happened that my vest was.. good enough for ME! kidding. But don't get a tacvest, those are.. well, their time has passed. Who would wear something like this: http://www.pssstequipment.com/images_pr ... 55_big.jpg (http://www.pssstequipment.com/images_products/2255_big.jpg) on the field? Now if it's the Guarder Mod tac vest, those are cool.. http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload/pr ... 20OD-L.jpg (http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload/product/img/Guarder%20MOD%20Tac%20Vest%20OD-L.jpg) I just would prefer something else.
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So is mine :-) But it may be not so great for real world situations, but I say if it's a decent knockoff, they're good for airsoft. Just.. don't take it to the extreme and get total crap and expect it to work forever.
Take my vest compared to Sarges vest.. his rocks over mine, no competition. But.. my vest is good for airsoft, am I right? Yeah!
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Wraith,
Don’t be too bothered by the gear snobs! :lol: I have been using a Blackhawk tactical vest for years now, both for airsoft and work. They do what they were intended to do, which is haul stuff, just fine. While it is not a sexy as a Wasatch or a tricked out RAV it is cheaper and will haul your gear at least as well. Mine will hold 12 M4 magazines, 3 pistol magazines, a camelback sleeve and the various odds and ends required for duty. When you combine it with a duty belt you will have plenty of room for all your gear. The back has MOLLE/ALICE tabs for adding pouches and packs. The trick is finding one that is not grossly over priced. Keep an eye on Ebay and you will find one for under $100.
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lets keep this civil. BHI vests are mediocre. They do their job just fine in my opinion. The tacforce vests appear to be just as good, just without the lifetime warranty. Having used a tacforce vest, I can tell you they hold up just fine. If you were real world, i would get a blackhawk vest, becuase if it breaks, you have the warranty to fall back on, but i would stick with the TF simply becuase you're an (ch)airsofter(?).
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Every vest I've ever seen has its weak points. I usually end up reenforcing the stitching anyway. If you want gear that won't fail use the LC2 gear. I have never seen that gear fail. But seriously, If it fits you, your mission, and your budget, go for it.
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Every vest I've ever seen has its weak points. I usually end up reenforcing the stitching anyway. If you want gear that won't fail use the LC2 gear. I have never seen that gear fail. But seriously, If it fits you, your mission, and your budget, go for it.
That's exactly what I wanted to say, but its really true, if you are only using it for airsoft and don't care if it falls apart(which crap gear WILL)than buy it. Althought I would rather spend the money now and have it last me a very very long time.
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I'm sorry guys, I meant Blackhawk as in Blackhawk Down lol, my bad.
They have the M-16 version on Airsplat and I was wondering if it's not like a cheap piece of junk or if it's worth picking up until I can get a $100+ vest.
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Deleted a few posts.
For god's sake busta, will you please refrain from hearsay! Stick to talking about stuff you DO KNOW. You're NOT a dumbass, and you do know alot about some gear. But not all of it. I have yet to read a gear topic that you haven't inserted "what you've heard".
Sometimes it's better to admit you don't know then to talk about something you know absolutely NOTHING about. I can guarantee that, with the first-hand knowledge floating around these boards, you will get called out every single time! It's happened to me, and everyone else once or twice. Then we learned our lesson.
To the rest of you, keep the bickering to a minimum. As you can see, I have no problem getting rid of trashy posts. If you have something to add, great. If you want to argue about who's a bigger a$$hat, save it for AIM.
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I'm sorry guys, I meant Blackhawk as in Blackhawk Down lol, my bad.
They have the M-16 version on Airsplat and I was wondering if it's not like a cheap piece of junk or if it's worth picking up until I can get a $100+ vest.
It's 60 bucks, plus shipping. If you want an inexpensive alternative, that is high-quality gear you can always re-sell (and make your money back), go with something like this:
http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/chest_pouches.html(bottom of page)
Tim might have some in-stock. If not, get it elsewhere. Holds 8 mags, and doesn't suck. Guarder and TAC Force make one as well, for about the same price. If you plan on upgrading to a MOLLE-compatible rig later on (recommended), you will have no problem selling the Blackhawk rig. Just don't get black!
If you really want a TAC vest, and like the style of that rig you mentioned, it will be ok for now. I would look elsewhere for a batter price, however. 60 bucks is alot to spend on something like that with no warranty. Also, do not expect to make your money back when you sell it.
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I'm sorry guys, I meant Blackhawk as in Blackhawk Down lol, my bad.
They have the M-16 version on Airsplat and I was wondering if it's not like a cheap piece of junk or if it's worth picking up until I can get a $100+ vest.
It's 60 bucks, plus shipping. If you want an inexpensive alternative, that is high-quality gear you can always re-sell (and make your money back), go with something like this:
http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/chest_pouches.html(bottom of page)
Tim might have some in-stock. If not, get it elsewhere. Holds 8 mags, and doesn't suck. Guarder and TAC Force make one as well, for about the same price. If you plan on upgrading to a MOLLE-compatible rig later on (recommended), you will have no problem selling the Blackhawk rig. Just don't get black!
If you really want a TAC vest, and like the style of that rig you mentioned, it will be ok for now. I would look elsewhere for a batter price, however. 60 bucks is alot to spend on something like that with no warranty. Also, do not expect to make your money back when you sell it.
Sarge makes a good point about selling that piece of used gear. It is alot harder to sell a used piece(even in great condition)of crappy/knockoff gear than high quality stuff. You can almost turn around and lose just a few bucks selling the good stuff, but selling something like a G&P AAV can be almost impossible. Trust me, it took me a while.
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Tim doesn't have any of these in stock. Blackhawk is backordered on OD and Coyote Tan until April 8 or so. They have about 180 of black in stock. Take about 1.5 weeks to get from date of order.
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Thanks for the great response azsarge :)
However, why do people frown on using black?
It is a basic color used in camo frequently.
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Thanks for the great response azsarge :)
However, why do people frown on using black?
It is a basic color used in camo frequently.
Because its non existant in nature!
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Thats not entirely true. Theres plants with black on them, rocks, etc. Why else would black be in woodland? I can't remeber which desert but it's either 3 or 6 color has it, I believe it's 6. Also, some snow type camo has it too.
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6 color desert has them. And yes, black does exist.. but hardly ever will you find something black enough for a whole body to be by.. so, a bit of black works fine.. but not all black, in my opinion.
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Why do most of the troops (at least that i've seen) wear black vests over there in Iraq?
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Because that's all they can get, and I have yet to see many wearing black, that's like saying "hey can you fire a mortar at me?, thanks!". Woodland is as old as dirt, the Army didn't know too much about camo back then, and put it in a uniform. Thats why nowadays in the new uniforms there is no black present. Only dominate grays.
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Thats not entirely true. Theres plants with black on them, rocks, etc. Why else would black be in woodland? I can't remeber which desert but it's either 3 or 6 color has it, I believe it's 6. Also, some snow type camo has it too.
Yeah, black blends great with snow! HA!
It does exist in nature, but thats not the point. It is frowned upon because it is not commonly found in nature. (There goes busta again, relaying info he read on the internet :roll: ) Black gear is bad because it stands out, and it is not a popular color for those in-the-know. Around here, guys hate it because it's cool to hate Black. (I guess someone decided it was ghey a couple years ago, and everyone jumped on the anti-black-gear bandwagon:P) In reality, it's just not popular, and a color that's not popular won't sell as good as Coyote Brown (498 Coyote, THE most popular color these days). BPG doesn't make Coyote Brown gear, so you don't have to worry about that for now.
If you want my honest advice, follow 2 rules for gear:
1. Buy a namebrand (SOTech, Eagle, HSGI, Paraclete, BattleLab, SOE, etc)
2. Buy a popular color (Coyote Brown, Smoke Green/Ranger Green, Tan, OD, Woodland, 3 color desert, black - in order of popularity)
Spend as much as you want, but if you follow those 2 rules of thumb, you will be in good shape when it comes time to move on to a nicer piece of gear. The only time I have not made all of my money back when selling gear is when I sold some asian replica gear. I sold my LBT rig, Hellcat, Paraclete pouches, Eagle Holster, and some other nice pieces for what I paid or MORE because there is always a high demand for cheap used, good quality gear. In general, if it's good gear, buying it used won't matter because the quality is always there.
As for what type of rig to get, it's all trial and error and it's up to you. I've used everything from modular body armor, to plate carriers, to chest rigs, and even a BLACKHAWK Omega Tac vest. These days, I prefer modular chest rig-type setups for their location on the body (mags right in the center of the torso) and breathable design (usually open in the back). TAC vests can be a nuissance, especially of you are slim/small build. Other than a few guys having issues with the rear straps, chest rigs fit everyone from a sumo to the telephone pole type (like 6'5", 180lb. me) and younger guys.
I'd also say look around for awhile. I hate to see guys rush into buying rigs, only to be stuck with something that doesn't work for them. Next time you're at a game, ask around and see if guys will let you try on their different setups.
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If you want something a little less common, look into one of the vests the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) designed. Mind you they're not cheap, but they're built tough and the designs have a LOT of operator input in them. I bought an IDF Recon vest a while back - the manufacturer was Archidatex - and I'm very happy with it.
Couple things about these vests, though. They ain't cheap. Mine came to a tad over $200.-, but it's worth every penny, IMO. The big ones, like the Recon or Medic versions are bulky, and have a LOT of pockets, some of which you may not need. I ended up pulling the integrated backpack off mine, because it simply got in the way. You also generally won't find them with back pockets for a camelback, though I wear mine over a low-profile carrier and it works. Lastly, the vast majority of IDF vests are OD green, which may or may not be to your liking.
If you're interested, let me know. The site that azsarge linked to, http://www.practicaltactical.net (http://www.practicaltactical.net) , has four versions for sale. Other sites also have them. I've read and heard about non-Israeli troops using them on an individual basis, so it won't neccessarily spoil your costume if you're wanting to look like a U.S. operator.
-Chris
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Thats not entirely true. Theres plants with black on them, rocks, etc. Why else would black be in woodland? I can't remeber which desert but it's either 3 or 6 color has it, I believe it's 6. Also, some snow type camo has it too.
Yeah, black blends great with snow! HA!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 76649&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36246&item=7143376649&rd=1)
Still, I can see your point of view.
Because that's all they can get, and I have yet to see many wearing black, that's like saying "hey can you fire a mortar at me?, thanks!".
You just contradicted yourself. You know that black is all they can get, yet you haven't seen many of them wearing it? :?
Anyways, thanks for the advice azsarge, creed, and the rest.
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Wraith
Troops don't wear black. It's the PMCs that are wearing black. One of the reasons, I think, is to distinguish them from the coalition troops. None of the PMCs I've sold stuff to have ever purchased camo stuff. It's been black or khaki.
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Thanks for clearing that up Tim :)
Also, I've heard rumors about Blackhawk being in short supply, is this true? Are you in short supply as well or is PracTac stocked?
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Everyone is in short supply, but Blackhawk generally less than most, mostly because they employ 2,000+ people sewing in ROV or China. Not sure if it's changed, but even the STRIKE line of gear is made in ROV, which is one reason I am moving away from Blackhawk except for items you cannot get anywhere else.
Blackhawk is backordered mostly on the STRIKE line of gear, but sometimes on other items (like that chest pouch) as well. Depends on the item.
As for me, I am low on some items, flush on others. It all depends.
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Hmm, does this have anything to do with the war though?
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Hmm, does this have anything to do with the war though?
Let's see...
Before the war, I had no problems getting stuff.
Now that the war is on, I have a tough time getting some items.
So, yeah, I'd say so.
Blackhawk is in the best position to supply, however, solely due to their production capacity. As far as quality, it's easily replaceable with substitute items, but it's harder to get those items.
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That isn't completely true about soldiers not wearing black. I saw a picture of a soldier wearing a BHI Plate carrier in black. He was kicking down a door. He also had a black holster. Most likely it was a gift before he left to Iraq, but he was still wearing it.
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Where did my post go?
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Around here, guys hate it because it's cool to hate Black. (I guess someone decided it was ghey a couple years ago, and everyone jumped on the anti-black-gear bandwagon:P)
I never knew it was cool to hate black.. Best not let anyone know I have almost all black clothing.. I think black is cool, but it's not cool to be dressed like swat in the middle of the field.. And OD is much cooler, hence why my vest is OD and not Ranger Green or Coyote ;)
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Well since we are on the subject....
I am looking for a good loadbearing setup...and have been looking into the STRIKE series like the:
STRIKE commando recon vest (very top of page)
http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/s ... rness.html (http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/strike_chest_harness.html)
I LIKE this setup the most but dont want to have to pay $50 more to buy the back plate carrier, when I want to setup puches on the back.
OR
STRIKE Omega vest (top of page)
http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/s ... leg_p.html (http://www.practicaltactical.net/html/strike_omega_vest___drop_leg_p.html)
OR
STRIKE plate carrier harness
http://www.optactical.com/stplcaha.html (http://www.optactical.com/stplcaha.html)
I want something alot like the vest Mikey from SWAIRTAC had on the sunday game at avra valley. (The one you got a pic of sarge) BUT i dont TOO much money, so I am going to have the buy the pouches one by one. AND I am looking for OD green....figure that will work best for both my woodland and desert set ups...but I do like the look of he tan one.....ha...oh what I would do if had an endless supply of "benjamins."
ANY help, info, and suggestion will be great :lol: ....AND great game sunday!
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Tim doesn't have either of those in OD. But does have the STRIKE Recon commando Chest harness in Coyote Tan.
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Coyote is the new black.
Now I am honestly not trying to insult anyone but black, green, or hot pink, doesn't matter when I see people standing in the open. You guys would get the best camo if you'd hit the dirt and crawl a little. :)
If you guys put this much energy into tactics...
BTW: The military did know alot about camo when it created the woodland pattern but politics and generals got in the way and they wanted a pattern that was clean and crisp. The original leaf pattern jungles were the best but they didn't like the fact that the colors blended together. They weren't crisp. Now mind you this was during a time when everything was solid green and starched to perfection. They felt camo was tacky at the office.
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yobroham, that was not what I was wearing yesterday (Im not on SWIARTAC either). I did own a STRIKE Commando Recon chest rig though about a year ago. It is a nice piece of gear I think, plus I got it on sale. It is modeled after the Eagle Rhodesian Recon Vest. If you want something like that and don't mind the fact that it is made in Vietnam go for it.
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hey yobroham, I use the STRIKE commando recon vest , I installed a hydro carrie on the rear that has the Molle setup already on it
yeah I didnt know about the VN thing till after I dropped 300 into all my gear
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Well, I knew about the whole VN thing and still bought a bunch of Blackhawk stuff. I was happy with the stuff. I just happier with some other stuff that I got later...
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The STRIKE Recon Chest vest is a badass vest to say the least. Too bad I'm too skinny for mine, damnit! But I say go for it. Better than the other ones they have.
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If you guys put this much energy into tactics...
Tell me about it brother! :lol:
That said, I HAVE caught myslef next to Raith in the middle of a firefight asking him if I look cool.
R-"Yeah, dude. Go prone and see how it crawls. This MAV is really nice!"
(AZ gets down)
AZ-"I dunno man, this E Trek pouch kinda get in the way of my 6004 draw."
(BB whiz by)
AZ-"Sh*t man, you better get down!"
R-"Hit."
AZ- "Whoa, that dust totally camo's your OD MAV!"
yobroham, of the rigs you listed the STRIKE recon rig will give you the most versatility. See studders rig and notice how it's setup. Its very versatile, and has plenty of space for pouches compared to the plate carrier. gixser13 also has a nice setup with his hydro carrier on the back. I like my Eagle setup, which is damn close, but I can't give an honest assessment since I haven't run around in it yet. However, it's very comfy as I wear it behind my PC screen here. :lol:
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yobroham, of the rigs you listed the STRIKE recon rig will give you the most versatility. See studders rig and notice how it's setup. Its very versatile, and has plenty of space for pouches compared to the plate carrier. gixser13 also has a nice setup with his hydro carrier on the back. I like my Eagle setup, which is damn close, but I can't give an honest assessment since I haven't run around in it yet. However, it's very comfy as I wear it behind my PC screen here. :lol:
You wear it for the hell of it too, eh? Yeah.. I do it as well. I hate doing that. Setting it up differently so many times for the hell of it and etc. Like a kid with a new toy. I have it set up with my hydro, but.. it's sorta jimmyrigged. But not crapy, it's decently done.
The Strike Recon Blah Blah has tons of space.. which I used every bit of. Theres no way I can go prone with the g36c mags in there, at all. Which sucks. Although, less' it's a tiny game I'm not trying crap in, I'm hardly prone anyways. But it still sucks.
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Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. If you carry enough mags to feed your weapon through the day, and have them placed where they're easy to get at (i.e.: up front) then you're going to have trouble going prone. If you use high-caps you can get away with carrying only a few mags, but they'll sound like a maraca as soon as you fire some rounds, and winding them is a pain (it also exposes you...the winding mechanism on most high-caps makes a very distinctive sound). Sub-loads work OK, but limit how much you can carry.
If you're starting out, get the most basic rig you can find that will do the job, and expect to buy a better one later on (you can always keep the old rig as a loaner). Wear it, use it, and figure out what fits your operational needs. Then pick up a good rig once you know what you want. None of the teams here have requirements on what LBE you use, so get what works for you in the end. High-speed/Low-drag is how you perform, not how you look. As Murphy's Laws of Combat state: "If it's stupid, but it works...it's not stupid."
So endeth the lesson :-)
-Chris
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I LIKE this setup the most but dont want to have to pay $50 more to buy the back plate carrier, when I want to setup puches on the back.
Why would you want the plate carrier anyway? Or are you currently in the service?
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why would any of you want any of this stuff? are you currently in the service?
None of this stuff is about need.
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why would any of you want any of this stuff? are you currently in the service?
None of this stuff is about need.
I plan on taking my MLCS kit to sandland.
But I see your point Tim.
Wraith, that's kind of a silly question. A plate carrier is just another means of bearing a load. Sure, they are meant to carry a plate, but the STRIKE carrier can hold pouches without a plate installed. It's a small, rather lightweight, padded piece of kit. That's why he would want the plate carrier.
yobroham, you won't need to buy the back plate carrier for that recon chest harness. I can't think of why you would want pouches on your back, other than for hydration carriage, in which case you can do what gixser13 did and attach the hydration carrier to the back straps. The recon's padded shoulder straps are re-configureable to the "H-Style", which is more conducive to carrying a pack or hydration system. The open back is nice during those hot summer games.
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Christian,
The obvious exception to my statement is "except for those really in the service".
I can tell you that I do not NEED any of the stuff I buy or pull from inventory. It's because I want it, plain and simple.
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Wraith, that's kind of a silly question. A plate carrier is just another means of bearing a load. Sure, they are meant to carry a plate, but the STRIKE carrier can hold pouches without a plate installed. It's a small, rather lightweight, padded piece of kit. That's why he would want the plate carrier.
When he said plate carrier, I was thinking of the harness that you put on underneath the vest and put the plate in. Not the one that you can attach molle or alice pouches to.
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Nearly all dedicated plate carriers I have seen have additional attachment points on them, though there are some which only hold a plate and nothing else.
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I will post some pics of my recon tonight, to show how I have the hydro setup.
Theres also a Recon set like mine on MM, but I didnt like the way the Hydro was atached.
I also have my Recon set so when I am laying prone. The buky part of the recon is right under my chest acting like a pillow(well kinda hard pillow)proping me up 6-8 inches. I have no problems with low craws or sliding down a moutain(yes I have done it) on my rig. I did have to relocate my side arm to my drop leg,