[busta_cap]

[]Nice to see some progress.

[Paco]

I should add that S 659 was the original bill and was modified SLIGHTLY and became S 1805 to get more Dem support for it.  They're essentially the same thing.

Anyway, this is HUGE news!  It pretty much nails the lid on any AWB renewal.  The Senate was the "iffy" on an AWB renewal, but this shows that 75% of the Senate doesn't want an AWB amendment tacked on.  An AWB renewal has even lower support in the House.  Time for the anti's to face it that the AWB is D-E-A-D!  In 200 days, the term "pre-ban" and "post-ban" won't exist!  []

BTW, the beginning of the text of the bill states:

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS; PURPOSES.

(a) FINDINGS- The Congress finds the following:

<font color="red">(1) Citizens have a right, protected by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, to keep and bear arms.</font id="red">

(2) Lawsuits have been commenced against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms that operate as designed and intended, which seek money damages and other relief for the harm caused by the misuse of firearms by third parties, including criminals.

(3) The manufacture, importation, possession, sale, and use of firearms and ammunition in the United States are heavily regulated by Federal, State, and local laws. Such Federal laws include the Gun Control Act of 1968, the National Firearms Act, and the Arms Export Control Act.

(4) Businesses in the United States that are engaged in interstate ............

http://thomas.loc.gov

I think that part in red could be a VERY key piece of law for 2nd/RKBA when this bill is voted on and passed.

Ted Kennedy was going NUTS when cloture was invoked - he couldn't stand it!  Larry Craid (R-ID) was amazing.  He was really impressive to hear.  He's got my admiration - and, if I lived in Idaho - my vote.

[Harley]

The fights no where near over Paco.  Check out what's happening in Georgia.

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2003 ... 17_a_2.htm

[Raith]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><br />http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2003_04/versions/hb1380_LC_9_1417_a_2.htm

16-11-201.
(a) The General Assembly finds:
(1) Semiautomatic assault weapons are military-style guns designed to quickly kill large numbers of people. The shooter can simply point, rather than carefully aim, the weapon to quickly spray a wide area with a hail of bullets;<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Wow, so if I take my AR-15 into Georgia, suddenly it will be able to do all that? []

[Paco]

That's true, yes.  RKBA will be an eternal fight.  I am only pointing out that the current AWB will sunset as scheduled and no new AWB will be enacted before it sunsets.  That's good news and it shows that the vast majority of lawmakers realize that the AWB was pointless legislation.  

GA, IL, MD, CA, NY, and a few others already have, or have bills proposed to replace the federal AWB that will sunset.  Why do you think they are trying to pass a state bill?  Because they are liberal states (for the most part) and all know that the Federal one is not going to be renewed before it expires in Sept.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00016

Oh, btw, I love how the GA bill is called the "Assault Weapons Protection Act" - ROFL!

[Raith]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paco</i>
<br />This is a HUGE victory for RKBA and gun owners!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Not to dilute the fact that no more AWB is good, but I wouldn't say this is really a huge victory.  If something that is slated to happen at a certain point then happens on schedule, I don't think thats a victory, really.  Reaffirmation of the fact that lawsuits against manufacturers of objects is silly is just that, RE-affirmation.  This is no new ground, and its certainly no where close to being back to square one.

Again, I'm not trying to be pessimistic about this, it is good news, its just that this is no where near where we should be.

The AWB didn't do much; It not being around anymore won't do much.

If anything, it should piss you off because it was probably a big "breaking point" experiment more than anything else.  See how well a gun ban goes over without actually being a gun ban...

[Paco]

I don't think the full implication is understood here.  It IS a huge victory.  If you've been following the news, the intent of Feinsten, Schumer, et all, was to attach a permanent AWB and another bill to close the "gun show loophole" onto S 1805 which (they knew) was the only way to get the AWB renewed this time around.  They can't do that now.  That's a BIG deal.  You should turn on CSPAN-2 and see them.  Kennedy literally looked like he was going to have an annuerism he was so upset.  Feinsten was really going off as well.

The AWB did a LOT - I don't know where you got the idea that it didn't "do much".  No new mags over 10 rounds?  The price of 15 round Glock mags (for example) went from $15 up to $50.  Prices of AR-15's made before 94 doubled (ouch).  If you wanted an adjustable stock so your wife could shoot your AR-15, you'd have to pay double and get a "pre-ban" one, etc, etc.  For those who are pro-RKBA, but not active in it, you're right - it doesn't "do much".  If you're active in owning, collecting and using firearms, the 94 AWB was a BIG hinderance, and it is HUGE that it is dieing and cannot be amended to S 1805 now.

This IS a huge deal because it shows that the anti-gun legislation does NOT work.

[Screwloose]

So anyone know a good place to get an adjustable stock for my AR?

Can't wait!

[Legs]

I'm sure Matt meant it didn't do much where it's supposed intent was concerned...the prevention of crime.
Jason is right about the victory, and the rest of you are right about waiting a bit longer to jump for joy.  ANY retraction or lack of further anti gun action is a huge victory.  And no, this is not the end by far.  Feinstein et al are a furious bunch of antogonists whose one goal is the full removal of firearms from citizen homes.  It isn't because they beleive it'll curb crime, either.  Mostly it's what they've shouted for so long that they don't know what else to do.  They will not quit and this is only a brief "stay" in my opinion.  Take advantage of it, though.  If Jason is right and we get a few months of "open season" on being able to do and buy what we want, do so.  For me, I wouldn't be selling off my high caps cheaply just yet.

[Paco]

I hear that!  In 200 days when the AWB dies, I'll be able to put my "pre ban" uppers on my "post ban" lowers and remove those "pinned" CAR stocks.  I can't wait either!

I have heard way too many gun owners (and gun stores) actually whine at the fact that the AWB won't be renewed.  It pisses me off.  Their rationale:  "We have too much money spent on "pre-ban" guns that will drop 40% in value when the ban expires!"
That short-sighted vision really pisses me off! [!]

Anyway, on Sept 15 when the AWB is gone, I'll be assembling my AR-15's with "preban" uppers and taking pictures of them, then getting it notarized that they are assembled that way in case any future/similar AWB is enacted down the road.  Pretty sad that I feel I have to do that.  [xx(]

[Paco]

Kyle, if you read Matt's post again, it's pretty ambiguous about the AWB.  Matt, are you saying that it wasn't that big of a deal to have to give up adjustable stocks, flash suppressors, bayo lugs and mags over 10 rounds?  I have always been pro-RKBA, but up until about 9 months ago (or so) I would have said that the AWB was no big deal.  So what?  Gun owners don't get their bayo lugs or flash suppressors.  They can use muzzle brakes instead and pay a little more for 'preban' magazines.  Now that I actually own a few AR-15's and other guns affected by the AWB, I can see that it IS a big deal - a huge deal.

I don't think it ever was even debatable that the 94 AWB didn't do anything for crime - one way or the other.  However, it did a LOT of harm for gun owners' rights:  a <b>LOT</b>.

[Harley]

All it really means is that we'll get a short breather before they hit us with something else.  I've been watching this crap happen since the "1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act" that banned further sales of new machine guns to private citizens went into effect.

[Paco]

Eventually, yes, they will.  It's only a matter of time and is inevitable.  All we can do is try to beat them again when they try to pull this sort of crap.  Pretty sad that we even have to do that.

[Raith]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paco</i>
<br />Matt, are you saying that it wasn't that big of a deal to have to give up adjustable stocks, flash suppressors, bayo lugs and mags over 10 rounds?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Of course not.  See below.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have always been pro-RKBA, but up until about 9 months ago (or so) I would have said that the AWB was no big deal.  So what?  Gun owners don't get their bayo lugs or flash suppressors.  They can use muzzle brakes instead and pay a little more for 'preban' magazines.  Now that I actually own a few AR-15's and other guns affected by the AWB, I can see that it IS a big deal - a huge deal.

I don't think it ever was even debatable that the 94 AWB didn't do anything for crime - one way or the other.  However, it did a LOT of harm for gun owners' rights:  a <b>LOT</b>.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I don't mean to imply that it is no big deal.  Any law involving firearms is a big deal.  Kyle highlighted what I mean to say - That is, the bill does nothing for crime prevention.  Increase in prices of a lot of related items means just the opposite; People can no longer afford the weapons they need and with a fewer amount of weapons in the right hands you get more crime.

As well as I feel that your rights don't change just because of a piece of legislation.  Nobody had less of a right to place a collapsable stock on their "post ban" rifle, its just that the feds might come after them if they did.

My reply was worded badly and I have a habit of forgetting my audience or "Preaching to the choir," as it were.

I did, however, intend to highlight the fact that while this is a good thing that there will be no more AWB, I don't think it is quite so much of a victory as some make it out to be.

I believe it is possibly dangerous to start thinking that events happening as they should would be considered a huge victory.  Consider the renew vs. replace rather than expire vs. renew argument.  I think that is akin to say, returning an unwanted purchase and then considering it a victory that your money was returned as required.  I feel no "new" ground has been gained.

I suppose it is a victory on the road to having a federal government that recognizes all of our rights, but in the overall scheme of things, we're still in the negative here.

Again, my intention is not to be pessimistic about this.  Much of my thought tends to be idealistic rather than practical and so sometimes it can be rather dull.  It is indeed fantastic that prices should drop and many "prohibited" items become available again.

[leakingpen]

quick question, whats the general concensus around here on the "gun show loophole" ?
since everyones talking about the wonders of the awb sunsetting (im with raith, getting rid of a bad law thats only supposed to be temporary...  big deal)

also, i was under the impression that the second two were attached by republicans as a bribe to get dems to vote for the removal of liability from gun manufactureres.