Handgun Choices

[Crono0001]

Ruger for small carry

Else I'd go with a Glock.

[AddoAduro]

Glock 22 or FN Five-seveN, depending on how much I feel like hearing "Whoa, is that airsoft?! That's beast!".   :roll:

[steyraug223]

I am a fan of the FN Five Seven but to be honest I think it is along the lines of the beretta 92, a military weapon that has a lot of military features I don't really need. I don't need the caliber (I prefer 9mm due to standing ammo stocks) and to be honest I don't find it all that comfortable to handle.  

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

[HavHav]

I am currently looking at picking up a handgun in celebration of AZ's unlicensed concealed carry law that just got passed. I am looking for something that is easily concealed, along the lines of the Ruger LCP, but I am a fan of a full sized handgun for hip carry during hiking camping and the like.

Right now I am considering

1) Springfield Armory 1911 (full sized single stack with fixed sights)
2) Ruger LCP just for a pocket carry small handgun
3) FN Hi Power because I like the gun caliber over the 1911 while having similar controls and handling

I am trying to avoid Glocks because they feel a little too blocky in my hands, and I prefer a single stack magazine but that is something I can work around.

What is everyone's CCW of choice?

Get a Kimber. Easy to conceal, nice big round, and they are nice pieces. You'll be pleased.

[Vince]

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

I like when people say 'to be honest'. It makes me feel like they are normally dishonest and this unabated honesty is a step out of their comfort zone.

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

[Crono0001]

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

I like when people say 'to be honest'. It makes me feel like they are normally dishonest and this unabated honesty is a step out of their comfort zone.

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

Then you get a lawsuit :p and maybe some time.

But that aside, unless you're firing it in a crowded area where lots of people are around, that usually won't happen.  Furthermore, the fact that you're carrying a weapon should signify muggers to back the fuck off.  Hopefully you never have to use your weapon, in which case any handgun will do.

Havhav has a beautiful Kimber though.  I've always been a fan of Glocks and 1911s- but nothing beats light carry like a small Ruger.

[AddoAduro]

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

Presumably, the same thing that happens when anything else overpenetrates.  Given the fact that as far as I can tell from the research I've done, 9x19mm, .45ACP, .38 Special, and .357 Magnum all penetrate more than 5.7x28 in ballistics testing, I think I'll live with the possibility.

But, we're not here to debate ballistics, are we?

[steyraug223]

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

I like when people say 'to be honest'. It makes me feel like they are normally dishonest and this unabated honesty is a step out of their comfort zone.

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

You are such a bastion of happiness and positivity Vince. Really I think that overpenetration is just as likely with a JHP .45 or 9mm as it is with the Five Seven shooting anything BUT the military/LE only armor piercing rounds. Those are a totally different subject altogether.

In my honest opinion the actual round itself matters more for (over)penetration then the caliber. Also I want to point out that having a weapon that can penetrate cover is not a bad idea at all. How many of us hike, camp, off road and the like. What happens if you have to take a shot at someone taking cover behind something like a car engine? Penetration does have a place in considering weapon and the round you will be carrying.

[axisofoil]

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

I like when people say 'to be honest'. It makes me feel like they are normally dishonest and this unabated honesty is a step out of their comfort zone.

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

You are such a bastion of happiness and positivity Vince. Really I think that overpenetration is just as likely with a JHP .45 or 9mm as it is with the Five Seven shooting anything BUT the military/LE only armor piercing rounds. Those are a totally different subject altogether.

In my honest opinion the actual round itself matters more for (over)penetration then the caliber. Also I want to point out that having a weapon that can penetrate cover is not a bad idea at all. How many of us hike, camp, off road and the like. What happens if you have to take a shot at someone taking cover behind something like a car engine? Penetration does have a place in considering weapon and the round you will be carrying.

If the person I'm shooting at is hiding behind a car... chances are this is no longer a self-defense situation. If they're taking cover, it sounds more like they have withdrawn from the confrontation... I suppose there are some circumstances in which that would be useful though, i.e. they pull a gun, try to shoot you, miss. Followed by you taking a shot, missing, and them running for cover before firing again? Or maybe someone is trying to assassinate you and botches their shot? It might just be that I'm not very creative in handgun-defense scenarios, but I really can't think of any realistic time you (as a civilian) would need to shoot through cover unless you are the aggressor, or involved in some very shady dealings.

If you want to penetrate hard targets, but not penetrate soft targets... a round like the .357sig is reported to be a great choice. And when used with a hollowpoint, is supposedly still extremely effective at stopping people, very similar to a .357mag or .45acp in stopping power iirc.

[XavierMace]

If the person I'm shooting at is hiding behind a car... chances are this is no longer a self-defense situation. If they're taking cover, it sounds more like they have withdrawn from the confrontation... I suppose there are some circumstances in which that would be useful though, i.e. they pull a gun, try to shoot you, miss. Followed by you taking a shot, missing, and them running for cover before firing again? Or maybe someone is trying to assassinate you and botches their shot? It might just be that I'm not very creative in handgun-defense scenarios, but I really can't think of any realistic time you (as a civilian) would need to shoot through cover unless you are the aggressor, or involved in some very shady dealings.

If you want to penetrate hard targets, but not penetrate soft targets... a round like the .357sig is reported to be a great choice. And when used with a hollowpoint, is supposedly still extremely effective at stopping people, very similar to a .357mag or .45acp in stopping power iirc.

You are assuming the main draw of the Five-seveN is it's armor penetration capabilities.  While that's nice and all you also are getting a gun with almost non-existent recoil, very high accuracy, and a 20rd mag capacity (30 with CMMG extensions).  It's hard to complain about that.

In regards to over penetration:

http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelgium ... fault.aspx

http://www.brassfetcher.com/SS195%20FMJ ... ng%29.html

http://www.brassfetcher.com/FN%20SS195% ... 20FMJ.html

Shot 2 - Fired by 5.7 pistol. Impacted at 1969 ft/sec, penetrated nose-forward to 3.8" depth, at which point the bullet tumbled and spit the core section out of the jacket. The core material penetrated to 7.9" and the maximum penetration depth was 9.7". Bullet recovered at 27.6gr weight. Pictured below.

Shot 4 - Fired by 5.7 pistol. Impacted at 1983 ft/sec, bullet was not recovered, but by inspection of the wallboard directly behind the block, no part of the bullet penetrated the rearmost drywall panel.

Compared to .45ACP

Shot 1 penetrated 11.8 ± 0.031", impacted at 1008 ± 0.5000 ft/s and expanded to an average diameter of 0.753 ± 0.0005".

That was the lowest penetration out of 5 shots.

[axisofoil]

I was responding to the "having the ability for penetration is sometimes necessary" argument. It was stated by someone else... I don't think penetration is very important at all (unless you're using FMJ or ridiculously hot loads... neither of which I would imagine being in a defensive handgun. This is again assuming that a carry weapon is intended as a defensive measure only)

What I was really trying to get at was that different rounds/calibers etc penetrate different materials better than others. Some penetrate people a little better than you might hope, but not necessarily things such as engine blocks or bricks as well... while others are the other way around, and some go through everything and anything, while some might have trouble getting through a folded newspaper. If you're worried about penetration, make sure you check to see what you're worried about getting through, be it a car door or if you just don't want it to go through anything more than the front half of the first person it gets near.

Saying the 5.7mm will over-penetrate in people is somewhat misleading when the "omg it shoots through everything like a laser" penetration characteristic is generally only quoted as that of the ap round... the penetration of which is rated in steel and body armor, not people themselves. The round was originally developed to limit overpenetration in people. Small, high velocity rounds will stop better inside meat/flesh than they will in something like kevlar, ceramics or composite meshes used in body armors. I'm not sure where exactly the line is drawn, but the higher the velocity and the thinner the profile of the round, the less likely it is to be significantly impacted by body armor, but I would assume that even rounds that were designed as AP are designed to expand once they're inside someone's ribcage... as long as it's an anti-personnel round at least.

Long story short... if you can't hold the gun and you're not comfortable with it, you should definitely NOT have it as a carry weapon. I like the five seven, but I have no crevasse on my body that would conceal it's grip personally.

[steyraug223]

And Vince, I am asking because I know how many people on this forum carry. To be honest I think I would get a better answer here then if I went to a gun store or even a strictly gun forum.

I like when people say 'to be honest'. It makes me feel like they are normally dishonest and this unabated honesty is a step out of their comfort zone.

I think if you think you're going to get good gun advice from this forum, and you're getting answers that include firearms that shoot a 5.7mm round for personal defense, you're getting what you deserve.

What happens when a shot you fire from your 5.7mm handgun overpenetrates and kills somebody else?

You are such a bastion of happiness and positivity Vince. Really I think that overpenetration is just as likely with a JHP .45 or 9mm as it is with the Five Seven shooting anything BUT the military/LE only armor piercing rounds. Those are a totally different subject altogether.

In my honest opinion the actual round itself matters more for (over)penetration then the caliber. Also I want to point out that having a weapon that can penetrate cover is not a bad idea at all. How many of us hike, camp, off road and the like. What happens if you have to take a shot at someone taking cover behind something like a car engine? Penetration does have a place in considering weapon and the round you will be carrying.

If the person I'm shooting at is hiding behind a car... chances are this is no longer a self-defense situation. If they're taking cover, it sounds more like they have withdrawn from the confrontation... I suppose there are some circumstances in which that would be useful though, i.e. they pull a gun, try to shoot you, miss. Followed by you taking a shot, missing, and them running for cover before firing again? Or maybe someone is trying to assassinate you and botches their shot? It might just be that I'm not very creative in handgun-defense scenarios, but I really can't think of any realistic time you (as a civilian) would need to shoot through cover unless you are the aggressor, or involved in some very shady dealings.

If you want to penetrate hard targets, but not penetrate soft targets... a round like the .357sig is reported to be a great choice. And when used with a hollowpoint, is supposedly still extremely effective at stopping people, very similar to a .357mag or .45acp in stopping power iirc.

Actually I had a very specific scenario in mind when I wrote that. I have been out shooting, packed up and started leaving, and had someone start following me. We weren't at a range, and just in the way he was driving I took it to be aggressive. This is the kind of thing that can't really be explained in text, but I just WASN'T comfortable. I had a .22 but I didn't feel like the .22 had the stopping/penetration power I wanted if I needed to shoot into his vehicle (should he brandish a weapon in my direction/start shooting) This is a situation where I want high penetration, and to be honest I also do consider this to be one of the few times I have felt like I wanted to carry a handgun.

I am sure all of the more experienced CCW holders are going to rip into me now, but hey like I said, I wasn't comfortable, and that alone is reason enough to want a weapon that will defeat a little cover.

[Ganef]

Actually I had a very specific scenario in mind when I wrote that. I have been out shooting, packed up and started leaving, and had someone start following me. We weren't at a range, and just in the way he was driving I took it to be aggressive. This is the kind of thing that can't really be explained in text, but I just WASN'T comfortable. I had a .22 but I didn't feel like the .22 had the stopping/penetration power I wanted if I needed to shoot into his vehicle (should he brandish a weapon in my direction/start shooting) This is a situation where I want high penetration, and to be honest I also do consider this to be one of the few times I have felt like I wanted to carry a handgun.

I am sure all of the more experienced CCW holders are going to rip into me now, but hey like I said, I wasn't comfortable, and that alone is reason enough to want a weapon that will defeat a little cover.

They make rifles you know... that can penetrate cover a lot better than any handgun. How about getting a larger caliber rifle, or a shotgun or better yet a buddy with both to take with you when you go out to plink.

In any real situation you will not have to be trying to kill dudes behind cover. You will run, or you should get in your car and drive away. You will have a much higher chance at surviving than standing and shooting at guys hiding behind cover. Or if it really comes down to it, hit them with your car. Violence happens fast, getting off the X is your best defense.

[steyraug223]

I have a few rifles, and a rather nice 870 with a 9+1 capacity, all of which would work perfectly. The problem is that I can't carry around my remington 870 like I can a handgun.

It isn't about the weapons you have, it's all about the weapons you have ON YOU!

[Crono0001]

Actually I had a very specific scenario in mind when I wrote that. I have been out shooting, packed up and started leaving, and had someone start following me. We weren't at a range, and just in the way he was driving I took it to be aggressive. This is the kind of thing that can't really be explained in text, but I just WASN'T comfortable. I had a .22 but I didn't feel like the .22 had the stopping/penetration power I wanted if I needed to shoot into his vehicle (should he brandish a weapon in my direction/start shooting) This is a situation where I want high penetration, and to be honest I also do consider this to be one of the few times I have felt like I wanted to carry a handgun.

I am sure all of the more experienced CCW holders are going to rip into me now, but hey like I said, I wasn't comfortable, and that alone is reason enough to want a weapon that will defeat a little cover.

You think people just bust out guns and start shooting other people on the road?  You carry a weapon to show that you don't fuck around if someone thinks of fucking with you.  Life isn't an action movie where you find yourself in serious gunfights.