KJW M4

[AZCW_Andrew]

Hector,

Any solution to having to use that proprietary loading piece for the KJW's.

And how do you feel about using co2(at 110psi) in your magazines instead of propane(we all know your love to propane runs into your veins.)?

[Raven1]

@AZCW_Andrew
There is no work around for the loading of the KJW Magazines.  Unfortunately it is what it is until there is a redesign of the upper section of the magazine that will facilitate the KJW platform yet load like an AEG.

t_hum and I have used a dedicated line from a shop system compressed air system to charge the KJW Magazine for testing purposes.  While developing the Pressure reducer and the carrier strain relief components it became very time consuming to have to recharge the magazines with propane.  This not only saved time but also saved on the hassle of going out and buying propane every few days as the amount of testing was huge!  A fixed line was attached to a fitting on the bottom of the magazine where the Fill Valve Used To Reside.  The pressure regulator was set at 110 psi and the magazine held up well with no adverse affects.  The gun ran fine as if it were designed to run set up like the "Legacy" Escort style Bottle and Air Line Configurations,,,

[Vince]

Hector - did you do this CO2/HPA testing before or after you had those hellacious part failures?

Green gas is like 80 PSI @ 55F. Running the gun at 110 PSI might have contributed to these problems, fwiw. Everything inside my Escort HK416 is machined from steel and 120 PSI is when you start getting into strange wear patterns and damage. 130 is outright damage and 140 is grenading. I would be really leery of running the KJW, with it's zinc and pressed feces internals at 25-30 PSI above it's designed pressures.

I should add that 110 PSI is the area where brass Escort engines are normally operated - and these are machined brass components.

Just some food for thought.

[AZCW_Andrew]

Hector - did you do this CO2/HPA testing before or after you had those hellacious part failures?

Green gas is like 80 PSI @ 55F. Running the gun at 110 PSI might have contributed to these problems, fwiw. Everything inside my Escort HK416 is machined from steel and 120 PSI is when you start getting into strange wear patterns and damage. 130 is outright damage and 140 is grenading. I would be really leery of running the KJW, with it's zinc and pressed feces internals at 25-30 PSI above it's designed pressures.

I should add that 110 PSI is the area where brass Escort engines are normally operated - and these are machined brass components.

Just some food for thought.

That is a lot of pressure depending on the mechanisms. Considering the pressure of a can or propane or green gas on a normal day in az (85*) should stabilize around 120-130 psi. A lot starts to factor in with these GBBR's versus something like a HPA sniper rifle where the parts at stationary and only propelling the bb.

I can't remember off the top of my head but I remember someone on a national forum had tapped into a WE Tech Co2 mag and was able to get a reading of the pressure of the gas and it was somewhere in the range of 140psi or higher.

Something I have been scratching my head about for a while is why no one has really jumped on the co2 bandwagon... You could really get a lot out of creating a little gas charger like the madbull shell chargers, that is meant to charge hfc,green gas, propane,red mags... It's also small and can be stored easily in a front pouch. A 12gram that is upwards of 800psi will probably yield some decent sized fills at around 120psi..

[Raven1]

Vince,

Great point!  If I may the KJW's fire controls, bolt catch, carrier, components are a low zinc content alloy steel.  Meaning a magnet will attach itself and hold to these components.  I must add I have yet to measure the pressure from the magazine as it releases gas into the BCG to cycle the gun.  Although by how the gun operated (Felt recoil and violence of action of the bolt carrier group cycle) I would gather that it would be similar to what it is on Propane.

I did have a catastrophic failure on the gun where the buffer retaining pin broke loose out of the lower receiver.  But I believe that to be a weak point in the design (the thickness NOT Being as it should) of the lower than a result of the use of propane.  The blown lower happened before the use of C02 magazine fixture.  This was employed during the testing of the Aluminum Piston, Aluminum Pressure Regulator and Carrier Strain Relief Component.

As for the the Escort HK416 I have yet to see Anything even come close to build quality, machining or tolerances.  With out question Escort produces the finest gas blow back guns around,,,

[AustinWolv]

Raven1, been following your threads at various places for this replica.  Good info and nicely done summary has me interested for a practice replica.

However, I will differ from your opinion on one point:

With out question Escort produces the finest gas blow back guns around,,,

Nope, Daytonagun.  The machining and attention to detail is incredibly better, not to mention the customer support and product improvement.  Escort was more or less a hobbyist making custom guns with a robust system; DG is trying to improve on the system to make it even more reliable/durable/functional out of the box, have more features, and have top-notch part quality.  DG internals put Escort's machining work to shame.

(For reference, I have Escort and DG replicas......)

Hi Vince.

[Vince]

Raven1, been following your threads at various places for this replica.  Good info and nicely done summary has me interested for a practice replica.

However, I will differ from your opinion on one point:

With out question Escort produces the finest gas blow back guns around,,,

Nope, Daytonagun.  The machining and attention to detail is incredibly better, not to mention the customer support and product improvement.  Escort was more or less a hobbyist making custom guns with a robust system; DG is trying to improve on the system to make it even more reliable/durable/functional out of the box, have more features, and have top-notch part quality.  DG internals put Escort's machining work to shame.

(For reference, I have Escort and DG replicas......)

Hi Vince.

ban him

[AustinWolv]

ban him

I'll end you.  Or just send you some homosexual pornography of Spaztique and I.

[Raven1]

Raven1, been following your threads at various places for this replica.  Good info and nicely done summary has me interested for a practice replica.

However, I will differ from your opinion on one point:

With out question Escort produces the finest gas blow back guns around,,,

Nope, Daytonagun.  The machining and attention to detail is incredibly better, not to mention the customer support and product improvement.  Escort was more or less a hobbyist making custom guns with a robust system; DG is trying to improve on the system to make it even more reliable/durable/functional out of the box, have more features, and have top-notch part quality.  DG internals put Escort's machining work to shame.

(For reference, I have Escort and DG replicas......)

Hi Vince.

Really??

Should we meet I would very much like to inspect that Daytona Gun as I have never held/fired one,,,

[AustinWolv]

ban him

I'll end you.  Or just send you some homosexual pornography of Spaztique and I.

Nice edit, Vince.  Using mod/admin powers for that is weak though.  But that glove fits you.
 :lol:

Really??

Should we meet I would very much like to inspect that Daytona Gun as I have never held/fired one,,,

No problem.  DG also uses steel for most of his internals, whereas Escort most often would use brass.  The pictures below are just about accurate with how you would receive the gun from each respective place, notice the professional/finished/clean parts versus 'I made these in my garage' finish.  I actually had situations where the poorly-finished Escort parts had sharp edges that cut into/damaged o-rings when a simple radius fixed it or parts that needed smoothing out to slide better since finishing passes weren't done....pretty much just rough cuts.
Quick internals view for comparison example -
DG AK:
http://classicairsoft.org/forum/showthr ... -AK-series
Escort AK:
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/p ... rt_ak7.jpg
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/p ... t_ak10.jpg

[AZCW_Andrew]

ban him

I'll end you.  Or just send you some homosexual pornography of Spaztique and I.

Nice edit, Vince.  Using mod/admin powers for that is weak though.  But that glove fits you.
 :lol:

Really??

Should we meet I would very much like to inspect that Daytona Gun as I have never held/fired one,,,

No problem.  DG also uses steel for most of his internals, whereas Escort most often would use brass.  The pictures below are just about accurate with how you would receive the gun from each respective place, notice the professional/finished/clean parts versus 'I made these in my garage' finish.  I actually had situations where the poorly-finished Escort parts had sharp edges that cut into/damaged o-rings when a simple radius fixed it or parts that needed smoothing out to slide better since finishing passes weren't done....pretty much just rough cuts.
Quick internals view for comparison example -
DG AK:
http://classicairsoft.org/forum/showthr ... -AK-series
Escort AK:
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/p ... rt_ak7.jpg
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/p ... t_ak10.jpg

After seeing the internals of the DG, I can now understand the cost behind them... It looks like they are milled to spec and not CNC'd...

[AustinWolv]

The 'head-shaking' sad part of it is that they are lower-priced than Escort stuff.
Comparison:
Escort AK (limited run of full guns) - ~$2000
DG AK - full gun - $650-900, I seem to recall?
DG AK - drop-in kit - $550
Escort 416 - $1200-1500
DG 416 - ~$800-1000

Anyway, just commenting.  Escort was fine and dandy when they were in the only game in town, but the customer service, accessibility, and final product has been surpassed by DG.
Hopefully some new developments that DG is working on will make the rifles more realistic like some of these GIM GBBr.

[AZCW_Andrew]

The 'head-shaking' sad part of it is that they are lower-priced than Escort stuff.
Comparison:
Escort AK (limited run of full guns) - ~$2000
DG AK - full gun - $650-900, I seem to recall?
DG AK - drop-in kit - $550
Escort 416 - $1200-1500
DG 416 - ~$800-1000

Anyway, just commenting.  Escort was fine and dandy when they were in the only game in town, but the customer service, accessibility, and final product has been surpassed by DG.
Hopefully some new developments that DG is working on will make the rifles more realistic like some of these GIM GBBr.

The biggest thing is getting the power source into the gun and out of a constant air setup..it's annoying running a coiled line and also non milsim..

If they used custom aluminum HPA tanks in a buffer tube or something, they could get some serious shots before needing to equalize again.

[Vince]

The biggest thing is getting the power source into the gun and out of a constant air setup..it's annoying running a coiled line and also non milsim.

not really - you can make the line pretty unobtrusive; saying it's 'non milsim' is just reaching at straws to have something to say, it's hardly noticeable when done right and furthermore I'd say the benefits it provides increase the milsim aspect; the report, rate of fire and cycling are all far more accurate than their AEG counterparts

also, an HPA tank that fits inside a buffer tube would hardly get any short of usable shot economy, look at RAPs, those have 60g CO2 tanks in the back (subjectively) and don't get more than 100 shots, and it changes the dimensions of the tube also

[AustinWolv]

It isn't any less milsim than having a sling tied to you and your gun or wires hanging off of headsets, etc........

In fact, it isn't that hard to snake remote air rigs into and through your gear such that people will look at your gun funny and ask how it is powered because they don't see the line.  I had several players stop me at Irene during active gameplay to ask what gun I was running and how it was powered.......only after I pointed out the line did they see it.  

Just like slings have QDs, so can and do the remote air rigs.

Less realistic than GIM GBBr?  Sure.  But not a handicap or burden by any means for the average skirmisher.