Airsoft Arizona

Off-Topic Forums => Real Firearms => Topic started by: busta_cap on May 13, 2004, 09:54:18 AM

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Post by: busta_cap on May 13, 2004, 09:54:18 AM: ROFLLMFAO, "run lil' nigga, get outta here."...lol
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Post by: azsarge on May 13, 2004, 10:51:32 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by busta_cap
 ROFLLMFAO, "run lil' nigga, get outta here."...lol
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wasn't he talkin' to you?[:P]

JUUUUUUUUST Kidding, busta.
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Post by: busta_cap on May 13, 2004, 10:59:24 AM: No I think he was talking to you C-Dog!
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Post by: azsarge on May 13, 2004, 11:06:14 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">100 rounds in one clip<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">YO! Youth Outlook<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

HA HA HA HA HA
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Post by: Legs on May 13, 2004, 03:33:33 PM: And yet people will believe every word of it.
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Post by: Giland on May 13, 2004, 04:35:17 PM: It isn't how much you know, but how well you can BS to make other people believe you know more than you know, you know?
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Post by: Movin-to-Arizona on May 13, 2004, 05:49:11 PM: That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. For one thing a AK-47 cannot and will not accept a 100 round magazine. What a dipsh*t[B)]
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Post by: SHIFTY1944 on May 13, 2004, 06:13:23 PM: It figures this is from Kalifornia."when you run outta bullets,Iam just getting started.You can't hide" That is poetry.
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Post by: Raith on May 13, 2004, 06:15:39 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Movin-to-Arizona
 That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. For one thing a AK-47 cannot and will not accept a 100 round magazine. What a dipsh*t[B)]
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There are 100 round magazines for AKs, they are like a half circle and the "bottom" of the magazine hooks onto the barrel. There are also 75 and 100 round drums for AKs.

http://www.ak-47.us/pic/magazines/2021.jpg
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Post by: Wolf on May 13, 2004, 06:34:47 PM: Can I ask how a cop would miss a .45 in the small of a person's back? Isn't that one of the first places you would look [:P]?
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Post by: azsarge on May 14, 2004, 01:48:28 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Raith
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Movin-to-Arizona
 That is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. For one thing a AK-47 cannot and will not accept a 100 round magazine. What a dipsh*t[B)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are 100 round magazines for AKs, they are like a half circle and the "bottom" of the magazine hooks onto the barrel. There are also 75 and 100 round drums for AKs.

http://www.ak-47.us/pic/magazines/2021.jpg
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Exactly.

What I thought was funny was the fact they are referred to as "clips".
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Post by: leadmagnet on May 14, 2004, 12:16:59 PM: Wolf

I've seen officers miss all kinds of weapons. That's why I always did my own pat down after receiving a prisoner. I'd recommend that anyone else in that situation do the same. Of course, that was on the street. I guess jail duty would be a whole different ball of wax.

Just a few months ago over in San Berdo deputies/officers missed a .45 on a SHOOTING SUSPECT. That's right, the suspect had just shot a officer. The suspect pulled the .45 out of his pants in an interview room and blew his own brains out.
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Post by: Greg on May 14, 2004, 12:57:53 PM: The small of the back is the first place you check cause that's where the guy's hands go when he's cuffed. You have to be pretty lazy to miss that. But it does happen.

I personally loved the thing about vests and hollowpoints.

At least if someone in San Fran reads this and believes every word, they will also believe the line about gun bans not working in da hood.
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Post by: leakingpen on May 14, 2004, 01:21:16 PM: yeah, that was getting to me too greg. i dont know much about the exact effects of ammo type and types of armor, but... wouldnt hollowpoints be LESS effective than standard rounds against armor? its flesh and bone that gets turned into a nice puree. now, as for turning hollowpoints into cop killers, i remember hearing about, ohh, 10-13 years ago that you made them by slicing the top off a hollowpoint and soldering a nail head on, but thats more than likely crap too.

and greg, i thought gun bans DIDNT work in the hood. or anywhere else for that matter.
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Post by: RickEJ6 on May 14, 2004, 01:55:33 PM: Thats what gregs point was. That no matter what the "gangstas" (haha) will get the guns. And yes, hollow point bullets are the last thing that you want to be using when going up against someone wearing body armour. Rick
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Post by: Wolf on May 14, 2004, 05:15:31 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just a few months ago over in San Berdo deputies/officers missed a .45 on a SHOOTING SUSPECT. That's right, the suspect had just shot a officer. The suspect pulled the .45 out of his pants in an interview room and blew his own brains out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for the info. I just found it interesting that he missed it in the small of his back (seems like it would be the most obvious place.)
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Post by: Ninja on May 16, 2004, 11:58:03 AM: Hahah. "until some genius invented hollow-points"

Well, the first soft point was invented in the 1897...

So this gangsta must be incredibly old-school.
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Post by: TheCrow on May 16, 2004, 07:55:41 PM: This kind of crappy misinformation is everywhere. I have a 'gangsta wannabe' at work who believed the following:

-Black Talons are 'cop killers' and can penetrate armor.

-Black Talons are illegal.

-If you shoot someone with a .50 cal weapon (he mainly meant an Desert Eagle .50) you will automatically go to jail, even in justifiable self-defense.

-You can get good finger prints off a fired bullet (no, I am not talking about an ejected case).

There are other examples, but those were the ones that made me laugh the hardest. I have been educating him ever since.

Just shows how many 'firearm ignorant' people are out there.
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Post by: Paco on May 16, 2004, 08:53:01 PM: You're educating a "gangsta wannabe"? Noooooooo! [:p]
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Post by: Basher on May 16, 2004, 09:29:09 PM: Oh, man, that whole thing is classic. I loved the hollow point crap. Sure they've got teflon coated bullets. It's called Moly, and it sure as heck ain't made to punch better holes through Kevlar. Although I've heard it does wonders in reducing copper fouling and increasing velocity through reduced friction. [:D]
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Post by: Greg on May 17, 2004, 01:15:14 PM: I think the misconceptions about black talons came from littleton. Didn't those two dumbasses at columbine use them? Then of course the media jumped on it and every one of those gangsta wannabees went out and bought a tec9 and some black talons. Am I right?
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Post by: Harley on May 17, 2004, 03:12:08 PM: Actually Black Talons were taken off the public market years before that. Due to gansta's shooting each other naturally. Black Talons do hold up to their reputation. A retired Deputy Sheriff I know back in NY showed me some pictures of what one did to some guys leg, dime sized hole on one side, silver dollar size on the other. Ouch!
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Post by: Paco on May 17, 2004, 03:20:36 PM: I have 5 boxes of Winchester Ranger SXT .45ACP. It's the same as the old Winchester "Black Talon" ammo except it's no longer a "black" color, but it's the same. It's tough to find since Winchester doesn't market or sell it to individuals. I got it from a LEO in a trade a while ago. The boxes have "LEO Only" on them - lol.
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Post by: Harley on May 17, 2004, 03:38:25 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paco
 I have 5 boxes of Winchester Ranger SXT .45ACP. It's the same as the old Winchester "Black Talon" ammo except it's no longer a "black" color, but it's the same. It's tough to find since Winchester doesn't market or sell it to individuals. I got it from a LEO in a trade a while ago. The boxes have "LEO Only" on them - lol.
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Bad policeman, selling cop ammo to a private citizen!!! Now don't go out and macdaddy some poor smuck Paco!
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Post by: Paco on May 17, 2004, 03:58:00 PM: I'm sure you already know, but I should clarify that it's completely legal for "civilians" to own and use, it's just tough to find because of Winchester's marketing and sales restrictions. Occasionally you can find it at a gun show and store that sells to LEO.

I fired one box of it to make sure my handguns liked it (not one FTF/FTE) and now I will use it only for home defense/carry since it's so tough to find. From the reviews and ballistic tests, pretty much everyone agrees that the Winchester SXT and Speer Gold-Dot ammo are the best HP/self-defense ammo you can get.
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Post by: Harley on May 17, 2004, 04:09:32 PM: Oh I know Paco, I'm just teasing you. I know guys with cases of Black Talons that were purchased after they made that regulation.
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Post by: TheCrow on May 17, 2004, 04:29:05 PM: I will not buy anything Winchester produces. After they caved and pulled the Black Talons off the shelves, I sold the boxes I had and never looked back.

Interesting side note: I was the first person in Wichita, Kansas to purchse Black Talons when they came out.

Paco, do yourself a favor, dump the SXT and buy some Glasers or Hydra-Shoks.
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Post by: Basher on May 17, 2004, 05:18:13 PM: Geesh, I'd keepthe SXT if it were me. Those Safety Slugs sure do cost a lot, and frankly, if I were old enough to CCW, I'd darn well like to practice with what I'd be betting my life on. At something like $12 for 6-8 rounds, I'll stick with the premium lines. Those Hydr-Shoks would be an exceptable replacement.
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Post by: Paco on May 17, 2004, 05:19:33 PM: I like the Speer GoldDot ammo - that's what I have in .40 and 9mm. I only have the SXT in 45ACP (which, yes, I'll be keeping). I do buy the Winchester White Box ammo at Wal-Mart. $10 per box of 100 (9mm) is too good to pass up for me.
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Post by: Basher on May 17, 2004, 05:27:50 PM: Paco, I'm with you on the White Box. .40 is pretty expensive, and since all I do right now is plink, that 100 rounds for $14.99 sure is easy on the pocket. But boy I'd like to trade my Beretta 96 for a nice Kimber 1911! If only . . .
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Post by: Harley on May 18, 2004, 07:58:52 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Basher
 Geesh, I'd keepthe SXT if it were me. Those Safety Slugs sure do cost a lot, and frankly, if I were old enough to CCW, I'd darn well like to practice with what I'd be betting my life on. At something like $12 for 6-8 rounds, I'll stick with the premium lines. Those Hydr-Shoks would be an exceptable replacement.
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You do know what Glasier Safety slugs are for correct? If not.. they're designed to put down your target without shooting through him/her and shooting someone behind them, in the next room, in the next house. That's called a shoot through, and when you're firing your gun at someone in your home the last thing you need to worry about is shooting your next door neighbor or one of your kids in the next room because your bullet didn't stop after hitting your target. Hell even Black Talons with their excellent expansion capabilities will shoot through some people depending on their body mass.
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Post by: Basher on May 18, 2004, 07:45:44 PM: Harley, yes, I know what the Glaser's are for. [:D] I'm speaking in general terms regarding CCW carry. Right now, I don't have a family (wife, kids, etc.), so I didn't bother to think about harming a child or family member. And if they're inmy house, I'd probably be using a shotgun anyway. [:D]
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Post by: Paco on May 19, 2004, 01:14:49 PM: A couple people PM'ed me to ask what the Winchester Ranger SXT's (formerly known as "Black Talon" ammo) looked like, so I figured I may as well post the pics for all to see:

(http://hunt101.com/img/126708.jpg)
Ranger SXT .45ACP

(http://www.hunt101.com/img/126707-big.jpg)

From left to right: Winchester Ranger SXT .45ACP, Remington Golden Saber .45ACP, WWB HP .40SW, WWB SP .40SW, WWB FMJ .40SW.
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Post by: Harley on May 19, 2004, 01:19:12 PM: You've got that one on the far right listed as a JHP. Isn't that a Truncated ball round?
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Post by: Giland on May 19, 2004, 01:44:39 PM: I had some golden sabers in 9mm, wasn't impressed with them at all (of course, they were the 147 grain version).
Bought my father a ruger p89 for his birthday, and he went down and bought the equipment to load 9mm on his reloader.
We bought some hornady 124 GR Hollow Point/XTP and loaded them a touch hot. These things are devastating in tests we ran.
Thats what sits in my pistol for home defense/carry.
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Post by: Paco on May 19, 2004, 02:43:19 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harley
 You've got that one on the far right listed as a JHP. Isn't that a Truncated ball round?
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Good question. I'm pretty sure the box said "JHP", but I'll check it again when I get home.
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Post by: Harley on May 19, 2004, 02:59:26 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paco
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harley
 You've got that one on the far right listed as a JHP. Isn't that a Truncated ball round?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good question. I'm pretty sure the box said "JHP", but I'll check it again when I get home.
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Unless the picture is disceiving that bullet doesn't have a hole in the center.
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Post by: Paco on May 19, 2004, 06:58:54 PM: Okay, I checked and I was wrong. The one on the far right is WWB FMJ .40SW.
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Post by: leadmagnet on May 20, 2004, 01:25:19 AM: So many bad guys are wearing vests these days that I try to keep on hand something that will punch through one like a .223, not that hand guns don't have their place.
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Post by: Harley on May 20, 2004, 07:18:10 AM: Well if the .40 pistol in my night stand doesn't do the job, I'll grab my Benelli loaded with 12ga 00 buck shot and finish the job. If that can't do, then I'll fall back on either the AK, the AR, or perhaps the FAL. Or should I start at the other end and work my way down?
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Post by: Harley on May 20, 2004, 07:22:58 AM: Comparison of Ranger SXT and Black Talon.

The original Black Talons have six "pointed" petals upon mushrooming...Winchester pulled these after bad publicity regarding doctors getting their gloves cut when operating
on people who were shot...

Winchester then "dulled" the points and called the new "and
improved" Black Talons the SXT.

Get an XST and a Black Talon, shoot both into jugs of water (4 gallons should stop the bullet) and you'll see they are the same, minus the pointed petals.

(http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2004-04-11/Scotsdown_1082209286_Composite_2.jpg)
(http://hunt101.com/img/126708.jpg)
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Post by: leadmagnet on May 20, 2004, 07:56:50 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harley
 Well if the .40 pistol in my night stand doesn't do the job, I'll grab my Benelli loaded with 12ga 00 buck shot and finish the job. If that can't do, then I'll fall back on either the AK, the AR, or perhaps the FAL. Or should I start at the other end and work my way down?
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I have a fairly wide range of selections myself. Heh, the only problem is that if the first weapon doesn't do the job, it is unlikely that you're going to be able to move up to another firearm. I certainly envy your collection however.
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Post by: leadmagnet on May 20, 2004, 08:23:38 AM: Note to those reluctant to use .223 for home defense due to high velocity and penetration capability of that round;

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#556indoor (http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#556indoor)

"Virtually any kind of ammo, with the exception of light bird shot, will easily penetrate typical wall construction (two layers of wall-board separated by 3 to 4 inches of space). Testing has shown, however, that after penetrating a typical interior wall, a 5.56mm projectile will have less wounding potential than most common handgun or buckshot loads. This is true because the low mass of the bullet sheds velocity quickly, and velocity is its key wounding component. This doesn't mean that 5.56mm ammo isn't still potentially deadly, but that the severity of an injury is likely to be less from a 5.56mm bullet than from a 9mm, .40, .45, or #00 buckshot round. This, along with the ability to penetrate ballistic vests, is the reason that many SWAT teams are transitioning away from the 9mm MP5, selecting 5.56mm carbines instead."
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Post by: Paco on May 20, 2004, 09:06:41 AM: Just use frangible ammo for home defense if you want to use an AR.
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Post by: Paco on May 20, 2004, 09:09:23 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harley
 
Get an XST and a Black Talon, shoot both into jugs of water (4 gallons should stop the bullet)
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Really? If I line up 4 jugs filled with water (in gallon milk containers) and fire a .45 HP bullet through all four, that will stop the bullet in the last jug? If that's true, I might just have to try that next time I got shooting in the desert. Any idea how many it would take to stop just a .22LR bullet from a P22?
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Post by: Giland on May 20, 2004, 09:22:28 AM: I use phone books duct taped together. They give you good feedback on wound channels and expansion.
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Post by: Paco on May 20, 2004, 10:58:34 AM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Giland
 I use phone books duct taped together. They give you good feedback on wound channels and expansion.
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How many? and from how far away do you shoot them?
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Post by: Harley on May 20, 2004, 12:35:18 PM: You can use a couple thick phone books at 5 feet for a .22 if you want to. 4 gallons should stop a .45, guess you could line up say 6 or 7 just to be sure and then see where the slug finally stops. Different loads will penetrate differently. A 155 grain high velocity slug will penetrate deeper than a 180 or 230 grain one can.
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Post by: Giland on May 20, 2004, 01:19:10 PM: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paco
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Giland
 I use phone books duct taped together. They give you good feedback on wound channels and expansion.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many? and from how far away do you shoot them?
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How many really depends on your loads. Two big phoenix books worked good for me at about 15 feet with my 9mm. I would recommend setting them at whatever you think your engagement distance is going to be. New phone books just came out a couple weeks ago, so you might still be able to hit some offices up for their old ones. Thats what I did.
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Post by: Harley on May 20, 2004, 01:48:03 PM: I use to have an indoor range in the basement of my house back in NY. I used phone books backed by hardwood 4x4's for a back stop. Shot my 9mm's and .45's down there all the time.
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Post by: Basher on May 20, 2004, 03:57:44 PM: If you want to reliably check expansion, soak those phonebooks in water for at least 24 hours. Dry paper is a terrible thing to use to check expansion, especially since you'd be using those rounds for self defense against a person I hope is comprised of about 70% water. If your case is different, I'd wager your attacker isn't human. [:D] So wet paper works better since it more closely resembles "flesh." Ballistic gelatin would be much better if we could get our hands on it.
Title: The funniest (in a sad way) gun article I've seen
Post by: Paco on May 13, 2004, 09:40:36 AM: http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_a ... 64c8df0b1c (http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=a725a0e95cae324e5b3a5064c8df0b1c)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Lightning Bolts and Thunder: How the AK-47 Came to Rule the Streets

Commentary, By Nino Brown,
Pacific News Service, May 12, 2004

Editor's Note: There are practical reasons why AK-47s are the weapon of choice for young gangstas on the streets of San Francisco. PNS contributor Nino Brown, 27, explains the gradual evolution from small pistols to large assault rifles in the inner city.

SAN FRANCISCO--I got my first gun when I was 12. It was a .32 automatic, a small pistol no bigger than the palm of your hand. This guy would come around the neighborhood every three weeks with a backpack full of pistols and sell them for $25 each.

Eventually he stopped coming around and we had to get our guns elsewhere, which wasn't too hard growing up in the Fillmore and the Tenderloin, inner city neighborhoods. My first "big" gun was a .357 Magnum, a revolver close to 12 inches long that sounds like thunder when it's fired. My mom found it and took it away.

Between the ages of 12 and 18 I came across so many pistols that it was second nature to have one on me. One day when I was about 14, a police sergeant saw me drinking a beer on the street. He's patting me down, and through the whole thing I'm thinking, "What if he finds the pistol?" I had a .45 caliber under my waistband in the small of my back. He missed it.

After that, I stopped holding guns for a while. But later that year something happened that made me start holding full time.

It was nighttime, and almost all the hommiez was outside kickin' it on the block. An old man came out of the building, stopped and posted up against the wall, right in the middle of us all. It was night but he was wearing black sunglasses and some kind of army outfit.

The next thing I know he pulls out what looked like a 9mm Beretta and opens fire. I was stuck for a few seconds watching this dude shoot at my hommiez. Then I reached into the small of my back for my gun -- and it wasn't there.

"Damn, I'm dead." I thought.

The shooter finished unloading one clip, ejected it, came out with another clip, loaded it, cocked a round into the chamber and looked at me and two other guys still sitting there. We got up to run, but one of the guys was hit in the lower back and fell down. The guy next to me stopped to help him and got shot in the leg. I stopped to check on him but he just screamed, "run lil' nigga, get outta here." I ran and hid in a nearby doorway.

After that incident, I stayed strapped.

Of all the guns I've had over the years, my favorite was a sawed-off shotgun with a pistol grip. I kept the barrel of it in my pants pocket. I'd put the handle under my armpit, which made me walk with a gangsterish limp. It was either walk with my shoulder hunched up 10 inches higher than the rest of my body or walk like a gangsta. I walked like a gangsta.

In the mid-'80s the gun of choice on the streets was the Uzi 9mm, a small submachine gun able to hold 30 to 60 rounds. With a longer clip the gun tended to jam. In a shooting battle that could mean death, so people soon switched to the Glock 9mm and the .45 caliber.

Bulletproof vests became a hot commodity to defend against these small handheld pistols, until some genius invented hollow-point bullets. Police upgraded their vests, but then someone laced the hollow points with Teflon and silicone, creating bullets known as "Cop Killers."

The latest weapon of choice on the streets, the one getting all the attention today, is the Russian Kalashnikov, or AK-47 -- a large assault rifle capable of holding 100 rounds in one clip. On the streets it's called a street-sweeper, because anything it hits gets swept away. Cars and trucks are turned into Swiss cheese -- imagine what this weapon does to human beings.

Why is this gun the gun of choice? Simple. Let's say you have a shotgun, or a snub-nose .38, or a Glock 9mm. I have a rapid-fire, handheld cannon (the AK-47). When you run out of bullets, I'm just getting started. You can't hide. I'm the equivalent of seven well-armed hunters; you're a sitting duck. You've got a pellet gun; I've got lightning bolts and thunder.

I've never shot an AK-47, but I have had, and shot, a Mac 90, which is a very close knock-off. I think that both guns aren't good weapons to carry around unless you're about to go to war against a large group of people.

Some people think that banning assault rifles will somehow stop them from circulating in "our" society. But even with the current ban, you can still buy an AK-47 on the streets. The same is true for almost any gun, big or small.

Brown, whose name has been changed, writes for YO! Youth Outlook, a magazine by and for Bay Area youths, and a PNS project.
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So many fallacies and outright lies in here I don't even know where to begin. There were so many that I actually found this to be FUNNY!