Author Topic: The Trouble with Vanguard  (Read 33191 times)

Offline Shdsteel

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2012, 09:17:04 AM »
^^^^this

easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.

I mean can you describe to me what they look like, right now?
And yes, one of them being a heavier set guy, and another a slender guy with dreads(or however you spell it).

Offline theFlyingTrumpet

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2012, 09:26:03 AM »
Haha.... My friend use to try to drag me to VIP..... I'm too much of a cheap bastard to rent a gun though, and I wasn't going to swap springs in my gun for one day of CQB.....

After this thread I'm actually more interested in going. I kind of want to see how many kids I can shoot up and make cry while not getting singled out by refs. It's like another whole degree of difficulty to the game.  :D
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Offline Major payne

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2012, 09:27:47 AM »
Haha.... My friend use to try to drag me to VIP..... I'm too much of a cheap bastard to rent a gun though, and I wasn't going to swap springs in my gun for one day of CQB.....

After this thread I'm actually more interested in going. I kind of want to see how many kids I can shoot up and make cry while not getting singled out by refs. It's like another whole degree of difficulty to the game.  :D

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Offline Paradox

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #93 on: November 19, 2012, 10:00:12 AM »
Reminds me of this one kid who wasn't calling it, spawning where he choose etc.. I finally loaded a thunder B full of bb's and tossed it between his legs. He bitched out like a girl.  Trumpet I hear what your saying, only problem is you have to get past the stupidity that happens. Trust me when I say this. That's very hard to do.
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Offline TJC10

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #94 on: November 19, 2012, 10:28:48 AM »
Oh and also I did forget to mention that vanguard now has a new policy that they will now go through your bags without say and some of the more corrupt staff will take your stuff. I understand for the bag checks as a safety precaution, but when nothing has happened to cause you to need to look through bags, I just don't get why they do it anyways.

I know for sure that one of the former employees took out a few bags of the house BBs from my friends bag, saying they were not to standard and that we had to but house BBs everytime we are there.

I believe, but its been a while since I worked street law enforcement, but no one has the right to search anyone except law enforcement with probable cause. Breaking rules is not breaking the law and you could probably sue at the least for that type of practice. I would ask a lawyer.
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Offline XavierMace

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #95 on: November 19, 2012, 10:29:58 AM »
A
easily. Sad thing is when you go to call them out, the response was they it was a joke.

I mean can you describe to me what they look like, right now?

And why should he?  You've been the lone voice in their defense.  That alone should tell you that you may be on the wrong side .

Offline Bob Z Moose

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #96 on: November 19, 2012, 10:51:45 AM »
I've been meaning to jump in here for a while, but was a bit too lazy too.

I've heard nothing but bad things about Vanguard since I've started playing. Mostly it was about the kids. Being as hard headed as I am, I decided to head off to find out myself and signed up for one of the lock ins.

It didn't start well. I brought the average age up by at least 2 years. Some of the parents dropping off their lil s***heads bundles of joy gave me dirty looks and mumbled under their breath about me hanging out front, smoking a cigarette.

When I did go inside, I was able to jump in front of said mumblers in line, since their kid wanted to gawk at the overpriced airsoft guns before getting in line. I took this time to go over all the fine print (just to be an a****** about everything). I asked the young lady working the counter point blank twice about their policy about searching bags. She said that I would have to be present and that it only applied if I had something like a real gun, non house bb's, ect.

I ended up buying a few things before going to the staging area. The girl I checked in with helped me with the first buy. I ended up looking at a bunch of pouches and settled on just buying a shamal. She was helpful and friendly the whole time, but obviously didn't know the first thing about anything she was showing me. The second time, I got an older guy that was either the general manager or the owner (not sure). I knew what I wanted this time and got a Thunder B starter kit that was marked up a bit. Oh well, saved me shipping. He was decently knowledgeable and helped me put it together.

Getting in there late (and having done most of my prep in the lobby), most of the table were taken. I took a table towards the front windows which had a few things on it. There weren't many empty tables, so I figured it would be cool. They did the "safety orientation" and when I got back, there was a group of kids there, staring at me like I had knocked their stuff off and flipped them the bird. I ended up moving my stuff to a table with friendlier people.

The games were hit or miss. Team Death Match was alright, with some calling hit on their first (or 4th  ;)) hit. Zombies was a cluster f***. The volunteer zombies were given 3-4 foot long nerf swords to hit people with. Most everyone moved in one group, making sure that only those who ran ran in the middle survived. Medic was interesting, but could have been done better. It ended up being just like zombies, with everyone being a meat shield for the medic and everyone moving in groups. By far, Attack and Defend was the best game type. It was also the one with the most cheating. When I was defending, I hit at least 4 attackers on full auto that didn't call their hits. I was too tired at that point to give a s***.

Cheating was a problem early on in the night, with kids flipping on full auto and blasting an oil barrel I was taking cover behind when they thought they had hit me. There was one kid that I personally surrendered at least 3 times in one game that didn't call it. Defenders (mostly when I was attacking) wouldn't call their hits. At the end of the night (during the last game I played), I caught a full auto burst on my left shoulder in a semi game. When I turned around to exit the arena, I caught another full auto burst in the back. This was after I had screamed "Hit" at the top of my lungs.

The safety concerns were overkill. Eye protection IN THE STAGING AREA?!!?!?!?! I could get it during chrono'ing, but all the time? The 10ft MED was also ridiculous. Most of the rooms aren't 10ft and there's relatively few angles that allow shooting at that distance. Surrendering, again, was mostly ignored and led to a ton of "I had my gun up first" arguments. With a 330 fps limit, I don't see why anything but a 3ft MED (or none at all) would be required.

The kids were terrible, most of the below 15 crowd were lil s*** heads. Period. I got dirty looks all night for no real reason. One particular lil fella kept bugging me to trade my TM SOCOM 16 for his Crossman AK. He kept going on about how it was worth $200 and that I was getting a great deal.  ???

They group that I ended up running with most of the night were some high school kids that actually played at a decent level. They all took it seriously and called all hits. Talking with them in between games, they mentioned that they hated playing with the "squeakers" and how this was pretty much all they had as far as indoor arenas went, as they lived in Queen Creek. I feel really sorry for those that live in the far East Valley.

The staff was alright, but didn't really give two f***s as the night wore on. They would have to remind certain children before every game of the rules. When I sat out a couple of games, I would talk with either the head ref (who was manning the food counter) or the two that DJ'ed for the speaker system. What I gathered is that they didn't like a large chunk of their client base either and hated their babysitting duties. There was one group in particular that they didn't like known as the "gypsies". Seems they're the ones causing a lot of the problems with stealing.

On the stealing end of things, I didn't have any problems. I left my bag, with my WE M9 and derringer in it, along with my Thunder B stuff sitting on the table. Later in the night, I left my primary (with 4 TM low caps) and my tac vest at the table. My bag also had some medications that I needed to take in the morning, along with my contact stuff in it. Nothing was touched. I played at least 10 out of 12 total games and had about 4 smoke breaks, so I wasn't at my stuff constantly. It all seemed pretty safe.

Overall, I might go back for another lock in. The field is great and I didn't have too many problems that were kid related (other than cheating, but we all know how to fix that). I wouldn't buy from the store again unless it was something I really needed to the game. I get what a lot of people here are saying, though. I did check my bag before I left and kept a good eye out. I'm taking a luggage lock next time to put on my bag and running with all my mags in my vest or pockets next time. I'm not ready to declare Vanguard dead to me yet. Maybe they'll get a clue sooner or later.

TL;DR: Field is great. Kids under ~15 are terrible. Staff was decent. Park your stuff with kids that act their age.

P.S. Vanguard, if you have any problem with what I said here, please call me out on it. Everything I put up here is true and ALL the stuff that was said to me by your staff members that I stated here were either quotes or accurate paraphrasing.
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Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #97 on: November 19, 2012, 11:17:33 AM »
Playing with adults, much better.
Keep in mind, Vanguard doesn't 86 any of those little kids for cheating.
As for the staff, ask them how much Brian pays them to work there, then ask yourself "how much of a shit would I give for that wage?"
As for just going to hurt the yuppiepuppies and make 'em bleed, I understand... It isn't right, though.
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Offline Bob Z Moose

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #98 on: November 19, 2012, 11:25:02 AM »
Playing with adults, much better.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons I got into airsoft.

As for just going to hurt the yuppiepuppies and make 'em bleed, I understand... It isn't right, though.

I would never dream about that.
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Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #99 on: November 19, 2012, 11:29:42 AM »
.And I'm still waiting to hear if PSC got the pre-registration money.. And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
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Offline Paradox

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2012, 11:40:51 AM »
Did you have the honor of the lil shits using the Riot shields?

Oh and the Nerf swords.. *Slaps Forehead*

What I would like to see is a nice outdoor field  somewhere here on the East valley. Kind of like what Henry does at Fighter town.  I have explored a few options of purchasing land out here.

Moose you mentioned them not kicking kids out for cheating. Which is very much the truth. Though they will be the first one to yell at you for ANYTHING in the staging area.  I lit off a blank 40mm round in the staging area, just full of green gas. One of the refs they had back then (The ref that was their tech at the time who stole parts from people's guns.) turn to me and said "Would you like to leave? Do that again and I will kick you out forever."  Only reason he said this I assume was because the guy jumped in fear when it went off.  Though, anyone who ever met him knows he looks like a pedophile.  Sorry that had no relevance to the subject.


The reason I didn't go to Ron's Charity event at Vanguard... I find it hard to believe they were charging twice the admission as Fighter town and that they "Said it was all going to Ron's Family". You don't charge twice as much throw up an auction and say 100% is going to the charity. But hey more power to them if it happened. Though, we have not heard anything about it like you said Mooncruiser. Thanks but no thanks i'll donate directly.
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Offline Shdsteel

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2012, 11:52:31 AM »
.And I'm still waiting to hear if PSC got the pre-registration money.. And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
not yet. I was supposed to go tomorrow but decided that it wast worth my time(had other attends to run).

Offline Fresnel

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2012, 12:21:43 PM »
And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
Wait, did that not happen? I feel like there's a story here that I haven't heard yet.

Offline Shdsteel

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2012, 12:24:24 PM »
And it'd be nice to hear that Ron's family got the proceeds from Vanguard's own charity event for him...
Wait, did that not happen? I feel like there's a story here that I haven't heard yet.
vanguard had no charity event.

Offline Paradox

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Re: The Trouble with Vanguard
« Reply #104 on: November 19, 2012, 12:28:13 PM »
Yes they did..

http://www.airsoftarizona.com/index.php?topic=34371.0

$2955 with 60 people in attendance.

Um at $40 a head that's 2400.  You are saying the silent auction raised $500ish?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:31:27 PM by TPAParadox »
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