Soc 16

[BeachsideCorpse]

After browsin through threads via the search function, I've had a hard time finding a recent discussion on the soc 16s (specifically between TM and G&G).  If there is already a relevan thread, I apologize.  I don't want to thread necro, either.

Basicly, considering the price difference, is it worth it to get a TM soc 16 as opposed to the full metal G&G soc 16?

Also, some elaboration on your input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Whiskey11]

Short answer, NO the TM is not worth it unless you enjoy gutting the gearbox to get to the FPS you want.  Yes it has a "magical" hop up unit, is it more accurate than an upgraded G&G?  No.  I've owned 5 M14's, and torn apart dozens more.  I've owned 1 TM (what a joke, basically fell apart in my hands, not durable at all, had to spend a good chunk of change getting the gearbox up to field limits), 2 CA's (also a joke, CA's usually crap), and 2 G&G's.  My G&G m14 Veteran is my pride and joy.  At a measily 383 FPS with AE .25's, Guarder Black Hop Up Rubber, Madbull 6.03 509mm length Tightbore, and a Big Out White H nub, I hit 82.6 yards with a 6/10 probability of hitting the target.

LONG ANSWER Direct from my post on Arnies Airsoft pertaining to M14's:

========================================
TM M14/SOCOM16
========================================
Name:
-Tokyo Marui
Website:
-NONE?
Manufacturer Location:
-JAPAN
US Importer:
-NONE
Stock FPS
-310fps with .20's
Warranty:
-None
Average Cost:
-350$

Externals:
Finally, Metal! TM's Second AEG to contain a metal reciever (First was Thompson series). The metal is still not the worlds greatest but it is metal! Solid construction and fun features make it a good external AEG. The metal parts match up with whats metal on the Real M14. Good news for M14 buffs. The only thing that is noteworthy is that the Metal on my Generation 1 TM M14 was not the strongest and parts started to break off. This has supposedly changed for the better.

The plastics are ok. They are the standard TM Plastic, and unfortunately that means the Heatshield above the barrel and infront of the reciever is very flimsy and creaks if moved. The stock is solid enough but I specifically remember mine being able to be torsioned a little which made me a little bitter. The stock has enough room for an 8.4v battery in it but some 9.6v's are too long to fit in there. Filing down the guide rails can fix this issue but it is apparent that TM is still living in the NiCD era for battery tech.

Internals:
Typical TM Internals, Rock solid in stock form. V7 Gearbox means new proprietary parts, and all of them too. The Hop up unit is worth mentioning because it is clearly made of magical pixie dust because in stock form it can outrange a good number of mildly upgraded AEG's at a fraction of the FPS. It is also very easy to set. The unit, however is plastic, but cant be broken because it does not make direct contact with the magazine, ever!

Reliability:
It's a TM, it's going to be reliable in it's stock form running an 8.4v battery. Probably close to 250k-300k rounds

What to Keep:
-Metals, Obviously! Kits are out there to change that
-Stock is OK on it, but can also be changed
-Hop UP unit is made of WIN!
-Motor

What to Toss:
-Internals if you want to upgrade
-Stock if you dont like plasticky stocks
-Heatshield if you dont like plasticky stocks

========================================
Classic Army M14 National Match/SCOUT
========================================
Name:
-Yick Fung Industries, Classic Army
Website:
-www.classicarmy.com
Manufacturer Location:
-Hong Kong
US Importer:
-Spartan Imports
Stock FPS
-325 fps with .20's
Warranty:
-None
Average Cost:
-250$ USD

Externals:
Metal and plastic content matches that of the Real M14. The metal is the same CA potmetal reciever however again it is very very very solid feeling and is very nicely made. The Bolt has a working bolt catch, but because of the gearbox design can only be pulled half back (to expose the hop up unit) It makes a very satisfying and realistic kerclank when you let go of it () The Disassembly is close to the real thing, and the parts are held together very solidly. The frontsight on all CA M14's is canted slighly to the left which irks me a little but is acceptable.

Plastics are ok at best. Old version CA M14's have problems with the stocks splitting out (I had two, both split out) The newer ones do not suffer this problem nearly as bad. The new versions also have a retextured stock that is much nicer to hold onto and much more realistic. Good news! Battery compartment holds enough room for large 9.6v's. You could, if you wanted to shove a 10.8v or even a 12v in there however I dont recommend this. The Door to put the battery in is plastic.

Internals:
The CA M14 uses a G&G Styled gearbox. However there are some stark differences. The CA M14 has a fixed motor cage and uses a TM M14 style fire selector (with the U bar that goes around the back of the gearbox... it's a terrible design, personally). The gearbox uses a slew of parts from different guns but here is quick rundown:

V2/V3 Gears
V3 Spring Guide
AUG Airnozzle
Short Motors
Standard Cylinder
Standard Spring
Standard Piston
Standard Piston Head
G&G M14 Proprietary Cylinder Head
G&G M14 Proprietary Tappet Plate (might be a V6)
7mm Bushings/Bearings
AUG Hop Up Unit
509mm Barrel
Standard Hop Up rubber

The stock motor, follows that of the Armalite series... they are OK.

Reliability:
In their stock form I have no doubts that they would last 150k rounds like other CA AEG's do.

What to Keep:
-External Metals
-Stock
-Gears are good to go

What to Toss:
-Heatshield is still bad
-Motor if you plan on upgrading
-Piston/pistonhead if you plan on upgrading
-Spring Guide
-Hop Up Rubber

========================================
G&G M14/SOC16/Veteran
========================================
Name:
-Guay And Guay
Website:
-http://b2b.guay2.com
Manufacturer Location:
-Taiwan
US Importer:
-Spartan/Tech101
Stock FPS
-350fps with .20's (Veteran shoots 410-430fps with .20's)
Warranty:
-30 Day Warranty from G&G
-STOCK parts replacement, indefinite
Average Cost:
-250$ USD (Standard/SOC16) 345$ (Veteran)

Externals:
The Standard G&G M14/SOC16 is comparable to the CA M14's. Some things to note is the metal is much more solid and the plastic is a heavier duty plastic. The same features apply to both externally. That is the bolt catch, disassembly, butt plate, reciever, and the rest of the metal parts are all well made. No visable casting or mold lines. Trademarks are simple and do not have "Springfield Armory" trades like CA does but instead says "G&G Armament" instead of Springfield Armory.

The plastics are heavier duty, and much nicer feeling than the CA's. Having said that they definetly are nylon fiber. They do not creek at all and do not crack out nearly as easy as the CA's do. This is due to the fact that the internals are slightly different in layout. More on that later though!

**G&G M14 Veteran Evolution** This rifle does not have a plastic stock but instead has a Wood stock painted with a Walnut stain and some light coats of brown paint. It looks wonderfull however it is a bit soft. That of course is totaly out done by the fact it's wood and much nicer feeling than any plastic stock!

Internals:
The G&G M14/SOC16 uses a different design than the TM. CA Copied the majority of the G&G M14 design for their use. It uses the same parts as the CA M14 internally. There are some things to note though. The Fire selector is different, the G&G M14's goes through the gearbox instead of out and around behind it. This makes for a much smoother change over in fire selectors (in my oppinion) and it prevents the fire selector from moving on it's own. Also the motor mount is on a semi moveable mount which allows the motor to fit easier into the stock. This is a good design as fitting into the stocks as that is a pain to do correctly on the CA. The G&G Internals are amazing, and I'd say better then their M16 series. They come with 4x7mm Bearings on the Spur and Bevel gears and 2x8mm Bearings on the Sector gear. They also come with a Bearing Spring guide and metal piston Head. These are truely works of art.

Reliability:
Unlike their some of their M16 series, G&G has worked out the kinks on their M14 lineup. They do not suffer from the reliability issues they used to have. I would say that a G&G M14 could last past 150k rounds easily and push to the 200k limit on good maintenance.

What to Keep:
-Everything, stock internally in the gearbox
-Hop Up unit is rocksolid

What to Toss:
-Heatshield! (buy a real M14 heatshield)
-Hop up rubber is "OK" but could be improved

NOTE: G&G M14 Veteran is by far better than the standard G&G M14's and I'd say, uneasily, that it is probably the King of the M14's. It truely is an amazing AEG and one that I'm proud to have spent the money on.

The G&G M14 Veteran has a slew of upgraded parts over the standard G&G M14 that puts it's performance well above that of the standard version. This includes a metal cylinder head and custom ported Piston head. Not to mention the use of 4x7mm bearings and 2x8mm bearings on the Sector gear. The motor is much higher torque then the standard M14 motor and the spring has changed. This is truely an amazing gun.

========================================

[BeachsideCorpse]

Thanks, you've pretty much confirmed what I was thinking.  Once I'm comfortable with how the gun comes stock, I'll start upgrading it.  For a few months, the only upgrade I'll probably get is a real heat shield.  It's such a shame that a gun that I've heard is so solid has such a flimsy component.

Again, thank you.

Also, I know that G&G sells the stocks themselves (the wooden one, specifically), are you aware as of whether or not the stocks on both the M14s and the SOC 16s are interchangeable?

[Whiskey11]

Thanks, you've pretty much confirmed what I was thinking.  Once I'm comfortable with how the gun comes stock, I'll start upgrading it.  For a few months, the only upgrade I'll probably get is a real heat shield.  It's such a shame that a gun that I've heard is so solid has such a flimsy component.

Again, thank you.

Also, I know that G&G sells the stocks themselves (the wooden one, specifically), are you aware as of whether or not the stocks on both the M14s and the SOC 16s are interchangeable?

Yup they are.  The only difference between Base model G&G M14 (The V4's) and the SOC 16 is the length of the outer barrel, flashhider, front sight, heatshield, and Operating rod (which is the same except it says SOCOM 16 (or SOC16 I cant remember)).  Otherwise it's the same gun.

If you are not dead set on getting the SOC16 length, the G&G M14 Veteran is like 340$ from Kastway Airsoft, shoots at what I'd consider DMR FPS (around 415-430 w/ .20's, mine was stock at 383 w/ .25's) and is an amazing bit of kit, you also get the wood stock.  Every now and then you will find V1 or V2 G&G SOC 16's that are broken internally that go for around 50-100$ (Arnies airsoft comes to mind) to which you can salvage the SOC16 length barrel.  For all intents and purposes, the G&G M14 Veteran is what I'd expect a gun in the mid 300$ price range to shoot like.  I love mine to death!

[BeachsideCorpse]

I'll keep an eye out for them.  I'll probably spend my tax return on the veteran.

[BeachsideCorpse]

Alright,  since I found out that I'll be owing money this year, I opted for the G&G Soc 16.

I was impressed by the weight and feel of the gun out of the box.  I was glad that the whole front flash hider was not blazing orange as advertised, but had been painted except for the last 1/2" or so.

There were a couple of loose cosmetic parts which I seem to be finding is relatively common.  A thin piece of black foam will be my remedy in the near future.

I'll be upgrading the hop-up and stock down the road, with the intent to get a new spring and have the gearbox looked at.

Chrono'd at AirsoftGI at 360 with .20s

Need to get out with it for some plinking or action.

Also, whiskey, do you know anywhere where I could get the old nylon web slings for the m14?

It's late, so I'll edit for spelling/redundancy/general-laziness later

[Whiskey11]

Any military surplus store should carry old web slings.  Otherwise I believe there is an airsoft replica out there.  Just a matter of searching.  Ebay would also be a good idea to look through

[BeachsideCorpse]

Alright, one more question and I'll stop pestering you for awhile.

Is there anywhere I can find a replacement for the imitation extractor?  I could make one myself, in theory, but it'd be much easier to just get one to replace it.  I also have no idea where it went, but don't recall ever actually seeing it on the gun at any point.

[Whiskey11]

Alright, one more question and I'll stop pestering you for awhile.

Is there anywhere I can find a replacement for the imitation extractor?  I could make one myself, in theory, but it'd be much easier to just get one to replace it.  I also have no idea where it went, but don't recall ever actually seeing it on the gun at any point.

It's quite possible you didnt get one.  Unfortunately this is one of the failing points for the G&G and CA M14's (although CA's are plagued with their own set of problems with CA's horrid internals and QC).  When you do find it, use some high quality super glue to get that sucker on there, or, sand it down and get some gunmetal paint and paint it back on.  Otherwise, I think the only way to purchase one is through G&G directly.

[BeachsideCorpse]

I was going to sand the crap out of it and score both sides a little.  It's not a huge priority right now, but I'd still like it to look good eventually.

Going to buy a cheap AEG this weekend so I can take it apart and fool around with it before I start messing with any of the internals on my soc 16.

Thanks for your help.

[BeachsideCorpse]

I'm going to necro my own thread here, but I have some interesting news.

I recently removed my flash hider from my SOC 16.  No boiling or anything.

CW threaded, tapped on the lower ring with a small hammer and allen wrench and it started screwing off.

Not a lot of thread to put a suppressor or barrel extension on, unfortunately, but still pretty great

[Whiskey11]

I'm going to necro my own thread here, but I have some interesting news.

I recently removed my flash hider from my SOC 16.  No boiling or anything.

CW threaded, tapped on the lower ring with a small hammer and allen wrench and it started screwing off.

Not a lot of thread to put a suppressor or barrel extension on, unfortunately, but still pretty great

Yes, the front sight is removable, however you need the ring to reassemble the gun correctly.  To that extent, the flash hider is not removable because you need the front sight post's lower ring for the gas block.  When people say "is the flash hider removable" and reference a SOC16, I'm assuming they want to keep the Front Sight post, in which case, you can't on the G&G.