Deadliest School Shooting in America

[Ganef]

Honestly I wonder how the media would spin a illegally carrying on campus CCW holder shoots and kills a gunman on a spree.

Probly somethign of the order of: "thanks for saving a few peoples lives but you were carrying where you werent supposed to, felony and expulsion, goodbye!"

[Green4Ever]

"Police identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. Cho was living on campus in Harper Residence Hall." --MSN--

Full Text (Updated ten min ago)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

[Ganef]

I am glad to hear it wasnt a stressed out engineering student. Tensions are high on my side of the campus.

[Farslayer]

Like Doc, I like the cranio-occular shot.  Brainstem double tap....especially since most of you sissies only carry 9mm's.

God grant grace to the families of the fallen.  RIP.

[deathbydanish]

Student Group Wants Campus Gun Ban Lifted

By Christine Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 17, 2002

(CNSNews.com) - After two armed southwest Virginia law students stopped a campus shooting rampage in January, a Second Amendment group at a northern Virginia law school decided it was time to change their own school's ban on guns.

"We are trying to build a detailed and persuasive brief that would include statistics on increases in safety, decreases in violent crime when you do have concealed carry permit holders in a jurisdiction," said Orest J. Jowyk, president of the Second Amendment group at George Mason University School of Law.

"I think the middle ground is to allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry just like they can anywhere else in Virginia," he said. "You provide extra safety to the student body that way."

Jowyk began researching his law school's gun policy following the January incident in which a disgruntled student at Appalachian Law School, Peter Odighizuwa, allegedly shot and killed the school's dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges.

Gross and Bridges reportedly ran to their cars to fetch their own guns and returned to confront Odighizuwa, who surrendered after allegedly initiating a fistfight.

Jowyk was heartened by the students' intervention. But looking into GMU's gun policy, Jowyk found to his dismay that the school's board of visitors had in 1995 passed a ban on all weapons, concealed or otherwise, except by law enforcement officials.

Anyone who violates the school's gun ban would face administrative repercussions but not criminal charges, according to Jowyk.

Then in April, Virginia's Democratic governor, Mark Warner, signed a law prohibiting local governments from using administrative rules to pass gun restrictions that go beyond existing state law.

Jowyk's Second Amendment group is now investigating how that law might apply to GMU, though the group has not yet approached school administrators about changing the policy.

"There is a question that's being bandied about in the Commonwealth whether or not this university qualifies under that law as a locality," said Mike Lynch, chief of police for GMU law school's police department. "Today, I don't think we have the answer."

If that legal question is eventually resolved in the school's favor, Lynch says he will likely recommend that the weapons ban continue.

"The more people that have guns...on them, it is my opinion that that would increase the propensity for somebody getting hurt," either through accident or mischief, said Lynch. "And I don't want to see that."

But the controversy surrounding gun bans on state colleges and universities isn't limited to Virginia.

In January, the Utah legislature launched an inquiry into the University of Utah's 25-year-old gun ban after state Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said state laws on concealed weapons prohibited agencies and schools from banning them from state property.

"We need to have the right to exclude weapons on campus," University of Utah President Bernie Machen testified to legislators, describing the decision as a matter of academic freedom. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," he said. Machen has also argued that the ban fosters a safe learning environment.

On March 6, the Utah Senate passed a GOP-sponsored bill allowing the legislature to cut in half the school's administration budget if the gun ban continues. The university responded two weeks later by initiating a court challenge, asking a U.S. District Court judge to uphold the school's gun ban.

Also in March, Ohio University's 2000 "workforce violence policy" prohibiting any carrying or displaying of weapons became the subject of controversy when a journalism professor was directed to remove a Civil War-era gun he had displayed on his wall for more than a decade. University administrators reportedly are re-evaluating the policy.

"I feel like I've really been fingered as a dangerous person," Patrick Washburn told the University Wire.

I find it funny how the other "media" outlets didn't report this.

[woody]

Like Doc, I like the cranio-occular shot.  Brainstem double tap....especially since most of you sissies only carry 9mm's.

God grant grace to the families of the fallen.  RIP.

Guys, real world police environment.... the reason we're taught to aim for center mass is in the excitment of a real shooting your aim isn't that good no matter how well you do on the range. Thus the concept of shooting at a limb, or the gun hand or a head shot isn't practical. But more than likely that will continue to be a theoretical debate for all of us.
The other insititutional problem is that college administrators don't want their campus police to be real police, even though today on many campuses officers are fully POST quailfied. But the administrators want to use their cops as parking ticket givers with the idea that city/county offcers can be called if something bad happens. Here was an example of how clumsy that is. Response times of agencies already in overload are poor plus they plunge in with a poor tactical brief. Hopefully this tragedy will arm campus police managers to get more resources and interdict the next crazy before he hurts people.

[Maestro]

Well, when that dude drove his truck through a Luby's in Killeen, TX and then proceeded to kill 20 something people with his handgun, it pushed the CCW law that was stalled in the state legislature into becoming law.  There is no way to tell how the chips will land with this situation, but it could go either way.  All I know is, you are not going to convince a bunch of rural virginians to give up their guns, and you're definitely not gonna do that in Arizona either.  

The situation is tragic, but there were heroes involved also.  Like the engineering professor who barricaded the door with his body and told his students to jump out the windows and run.  That man is a hero and I hope his deeds don't get drowned out by the tragedy.

[Farslayer]

Guys, real world police environment.... the reason we're taught to aim for center mass is in the excitment of a real shooting your aim isn't that good no matter how well you do on the range. Thus the concept of shooting at a limb, or the gun hand or a head shot isn't practical. But more than likely that will continue to be a theoretical debate for all of us.

That's true Wood....nothing worse than "buck fever" in the classroom.

[deathbydanish]

Guess who's coming to protest...

Seriously these people are either legally insane or the biggest media whores in the history of the world.

[Ares]

they make me want to kick things

[Maestro]

those people went to protest a funeral for a friend of mine.  I called up my dad, and a group, a very large group, of our biker friends came to block them from view.  They intimidated these people so much, that they left before the funeral even started.  

My friend's mother had been very stoic until she saw all of the bikers and other people who had come out to mourn her son.  I can promise you this, for every one of those WBC people, there are thousands of good people willing to step in and shut them up.

[Maestro]

those people went to protest a funeral for a friend of mine.  I called up my dad, and a group, a very large group, of our biker friends came to block them from view.  They intimidated these people so much, that they left before the funeral even started.  

My friend's mother had been very stoic until she saw all of the bikers and other people who had come out to mourn her son.  I can promise you this, for every one of those WBC people, there are thousands of good people willing to step in and shut them up.

[Greg]

Like Doc, I like the cranio-occular shot.  Brainstem double tap....especially since most of you sissies only carry 9mm's.

God grant grace to the families of the fallen.  RIP.

Guys, real world police environment.... the reason we're taught to aim for center mass is in the excitment of a real shooting your aim isn't that good no matter how well you do on the range. Thus the concept of shooting at a limb, or the gun hand or a head shot isn't practical.

While I 100% agree about shooting at the COM, it can be more and more common to encounter a person that requires a failure drill these days (because of body armor or drugs). The initial reports said that this fucker had armor on. I think that turned out to be mag pouches or total BS; but in an active shooter situation, the likelyhood that the guy will have armor on is high.

[Wicked-Mpact]

I dont think this has been posted yet, but check out some of the pictures the gunman sent to NBC on Tuesday

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

[XavierMace]

but in an active shooter situation, the likelyhood that the guy will have armor on is high.

And thats why you carry a Five-seveN.    Up's your odds a little in that situation.