AZ trust Land & permits

[Archer]

Chip - are you going to contact the land trust to see how we can get around this permit issue? or can we get an admandment to the use permit? im cool with paying the $15 to play at Hatfield, and other AZTL... i would contact them but i work during their hours so i figured a professional websurfer would have more time. 

[bigwavedave]

paintball and airsoft as well as target shooting are prohibited on state trust land even with a rec use permit. 

[Flick]

paintball and airsoft as well as target shooting are prohibited on state trust land even with a rec use permit. 

Neat, so the deputy that told us we needed one and that he had one personally because he played paintball is actually clueless. I suppose that shouldn't surprise me. Of course, one could make the argument that it's all about interpretation, so if he comes back to enforce it, he'd be enforcing it incorrectly but would let us play.

Then again, of the ~5 times I've had the sheriff/police stop us, I've never seen the same guy come back....

[Flick]

Yep, he was clueless:

Q. What does my Recreation Permit allow me to do on Trust Land?

A. Your recreation permit allows you to enjoy non-consumptive recreational activities including: hiking, horseback riding, bicycling, picnics, photography, bird watching, sightseeing, camping (limited to 14 days per year), and limited off highway vehicle use (restricted to designated roads and trails), for non-commercial and non-competitive purposes.

An Trust Land Recreation Permit does not permit target shooting, paintball, airsoft, recreational flying (i.e. ultralite aircraft), vehicular 'rock hopping', sand railing, fireworks, or congregating in groups larger than 19 people (see Event Permit). Visiting prehistoric and historic cultural or archaeological sites, Metal detecting, Collecting or removing natural products (rocks, stone, soil, fossils, mineral specimens, cacti, saguaro or cholla skeletons, plants (live or dead), or firewood for home use, are all prohibited. Nor does it permit any activity that would otherwise be illegal or conflict with local laws or ordinances. A Recreation Permit does not authorize use of non-state lands such as military, federal, Tribal, or private lands.

Reference: http://www.land.state.az.us/programs/natural/rec_permitFaqs.htm#Q13

[Mr Random 42]

So what does this mean then? We're SOL when it comes to Hatfield? Or are there other zones in the area we could use alternatively?

[xTanTricK]

So what does this mean then? We're SOL when it comes to Hatfield? Or are there other zones in the area we could use alternatively?

From what I can tell, unfortunately Hatfield is a no go.

[Plauge]

RIP for now hatfield... Hopefully we can get around this

[Mooncruiser]

Okay, so we either play on the non-state land of Hatfield or go to some other place they can't bother us at.
Screw 'em, it'll work out.

[Plauge]

Hopefully

[Mooncruiser]

It'll be okaY, don't be a sheep.

[Katana0]

So if I am to interpret this properly, Hatfield is no longer usable as a play field?  Or were you trying to get a permit to organize an event down there (and have people pay to get in and whatnot)?

[hieu66]

I work downtown in the sandra day oconner federal courthouse, and I know some of the attorneys and ex cops that works there. Will ask them tomorrow and let you guys know. It will sucks, if we loose Hatfield!!

[Mooncruiser]

Just have to find a spot that's not AZ trust land. I would think maybe next field location, a spot more off away from a street -make it harder for some cop to come to.

[XavierMace]

I work downtown in the sandra day oconner federal courthouse, and I know some of the attorneys and ex cops that works there. Will ask them tomorrow and let you guys know. It will sucks, if we loose Hatfield!!

There's nothing to ask them, it's really quite clear.  Is Hatfield on AZ Trust Land?  If yes, then airsofting is a no go.  It's very clearly defined.

[Flick]

FWIW, this will be the 3rd or 4th time that Hatfield has been declared dead since I started playing there ten years ago. As long as folks are willing, it'll likely stay active until they sell it off and raze it like they did with the NE section of Hatfield, now known as the empty dirt lot off of 107th and Happy Valley Parkway.

For me it's simple. The deputy said a permit would work. We know it doesn't, but if he comes back to enforce it, he's enforcing what he believes, so I'll show him my permit. If another one comes, well gosh officer, the deputy here on 2/12 told us a permit was fine, sorry about that.

Then again, I'm always one to push the rules. YMMV.

Peter