Interesting Article about M4

[Chambers03]

well not just that but we will never use russian arms for the matter. and even though the M4 models are going out, the new SCAR is coming in for sf guys. that seems to be a promising future to. it can be upgraded in practicly every way for the soldiers themselves and the companies that make them.

[azsarge]

I'd like to hear some evidence as well, if the gun "jams at critical moments", why wouldn't they want to alleviate that?

I think Vince already answered that...

Politics.

They have no reason to continue ordering guns from Colt other than politics.  H&K already said they can match (or even beat) the price Colt is charging them and I don't think there is any question the HK416 is a better weapon than the stuff Colt is pushing.  I am sure some politician made a case for keeping it to US companies or something stupid like that.

You don't see your local government driving foreign vehicles do you?

Yes.  

The M16 platform IS a good weapon system.  With the M4, we're talking U.S.Army-wide.  It hasn't been a strictly SOF rifle for several years.  

The AK is not perfect.  Every system has it's drawbacks.  

I'm not going to do what some of you have and comment on which weapon system SOF uses, because I'm not in an SOF unit.  Those of you who are, feel free to share your operational experiences with us.

I do think that most of you would be surprised to learn exactly WHO uses M4s, AKs, and even the M16.  What I see around here doesn't really jive with what I'm reading on the internet.

[chris]

I am in no way SUGESTING the AK to be a weapon adopted by the US, rather comparing it to the weapons the US is against in the war in Iraq.

[jwflowersii]

I've heard from some Special Ops guys that they are not happy with the SCAR, especially the recipricating charging handle.  With the catridges ejecting on the right and the charging handle on the left the gun cannot be fired leaning near the ground.  They also say it gets caught in their gear.  When this happens it knocks the bolt out and you dry fire, not good for CQB.  FN is having some production issues as well and only a few SCARs have been distrubited to the units for testing and evaluations.  The 7.62 variant is having some issues as well in production.  According to these SOCOM guys, the HK 416 will not be chosen because of the higher ups siding with the SCAR.  Anyway, politics fucking with our troops again.  I think many operators want a 6.5mm or 6.8mm round anyway.

John

[aztacgunfighter]

m16-m4 and 223 are great for dogs and cats

for making people dead and taking them off their feet right now with one shot,  M14---308   socom- scout m14 event the new improved bullpup m14

even a sub gun for close up work with the 45 cal. round
why not use the ruger mini 14 way less expensive, more reliable , easy to take apart, comes in a folder stock, can be made full and semi auto....1 colt gets you 5 rugers

damn politicians, give them a gun and send them to war, let them find out first hand.

9mm and 223 are the throw back to a softer more gentle type of war where we wounded combatants and hope that will demoralize and slow enemy progress but the new enemy know two things

they want to kill all americans and they are willing to kill them self to do it, help them with a 308 to the skull

ask a vietnam vet,

use a round best useed for small game at medium range 100-200 yards or a round made to kill anything at 100-2000 yards with the right trigger puller (Marine or army)

[Pavegunner]

with the right trigger puller (Marine or army)

What.....PJs, SEALs, and TACP don't know how to shoot an M14?  :shock:    :lol:

[Farslayer]

with the right trigger puller (Marine or army)

What.....PJs, SEALs, and TACP don't know how to shoot an M14?  :shock:    :lol:

 
The PJ's that pave flys around certainly like the M14 and know how to use it.... :roll:...he certainly knows what he is talking about.

[aztacgunfighter]

PJ's, SEAL's .... know how to shoot anything, but my referance was to the common ground pounder not spec ops guys, they can , do use what it takes, even ak's if need be,

[Gantaliano Hoff]

...........
.
.
.........Wow....

Ditto what Christian said. My lips are sealed.

[jwflowersii]

Another article on the subject with some praise for the HK416.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/200 ... x.php#more

[XavierMace]

Yeah you hear a lot of good about the HK416, the problem is the army won't use them (as was discussed before).

[azsarge]

Yeah you hear a lot of good about the HK416, the problem is the army won't use them (as was discussed before).

I've seen them here.

From what I've read, they are being used in very limited numbers.

I think it's more accurate to say BIG Army won't use them.

[Doc Hollywood]

I'm way old here..... but back when I was a kid at Ft Bragg those "other guys" on base had a crap load of AK's ....

Seems that was the only ammunition in ready abundance in certain Central American circles....

and they all had plain old ordinary 1911's....

and that stuff worked just fine

[jwflowersii]

According to a couple of sources, I've heard all of the Army's Special Forces use HK416's.  They put in an order separate from SOCOM for the SCAR because they were similar to the M4s.

[azsarge]

According to a couple of sources, I've heard all of the Army's Special Forces use HK416's.

Again, I'm talking out of my ass but I believe your sources are incorrect with regards to the former.

Doc, shit, everyone has an AK these days!   :lol:

There are also very-NON-SOF guys (read: POGs!) running around with M4 barrels shorter than 14.5 and painted recievers.  Whether or not it was authorized or even a POW I have no idea.