U.A.R.C.

[Bucket]

[driver5]

Why?

Everything is pretty much standardized as is, unless you show up to a CQB game with your standard legal 400fps gun you're probably going to be ok. The only thing that changes is age limits, and unless you're going to provide a blanket insurance policy to cover minors, your organization is kinda pointless.

[azsarge]

No, thank you.

But, out of curiosity, what sort of rules were you thinking of, Bucket?

[Bucket]

No, thank you.

But, out of curiosity, what sort of rules were you thinking of, Bucket?

That is the point of the entire conference is so that all of the orgs can help in the design of a set of universal regs. I have been reading a bit on a few police forums and can tell you the general consensus is that our airsoft weapons should be bright pink. I don't know about you but I really don't like that idea.

Also the Fact that TAC has a rule for full face masks for minors and AA doesn't, Word is that AA doesn't allow minors, however the catch is that minor must be accompanied by an adult or sponsor. Now you have TAC disallowing any game to be posted on their forum if the rules do not meet or exceed their rules. This means that since AA allows minors without facemasks, even though they are acompanied, this ruling could be taken many ways. If there was a universal rule this would not even be an issue and would give no minor the right to argue the point.

Personally, and I have heard from Kiley that he believes this is a good idea to unite the airsoft orgs in AZ under one universal set of regulations. If you don't believe Kiley would support this take a look here... http://www.tucsoncoalition.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2348

This could also include a lecture from the LE side of the story to give airsofter a better idea of the laws and how they are interpreted insted of any guessing. I have begun research into the waiver usage in AZ and have found out that the ONLY reason the previous cases involving minors were ruled in favor of the minor is because the language in the waiver was too ambiguous. However there have also been cases where the waiver was too explicit in the wording as well.

The reasons behind the conference are many. All to help benefit airsoft as a whole. True you could do the universal rules all on your own, but who has the time? I do.

Who has ever tried this before? None to my knowledge. Instead of asking why, why not ask why not?

[Ares]

Please don't add any other sort of politics this sport.

[**INFIDEL**]

Amen Ares, per my experience you start organizing Or as Ares pointed out "POLITICS" theres always a POCKET that needs greasing then all the sudden theres POCKETS that needs greasing, then you would pay to play at every event. Seems to me that things work here at AA just fine. I will be blunt DO NOT INVOLVE POLITICS IN MY SPORT!! I hope that there will be a vote at AA If somebody thinks this is a good idea and if said vote does'nt go the way I think It should go then I'll start another AA and you'll already know how that group feels about the organizing, fee grabbing officals that will soon follow looking to get there pockets greased. If the rules work for you, good for you. Seems to me that this is all about minors, I'm an adult, I want to play this game with adults, If the liability of letting minors participate In these games with adults Is the problem, then maybe you should focus all your energy and organize games just for minors and leave us tax paying, over 21 ADULTS, to our games, when said minors turn of age then they can play with adults and then they can even drink a beer when the game is all done. Now theres no minor problem. Guess I'll have to play a more active part In this little community, and keep an eye out for any covert Op's looking to take over with rules and regs and I'm sure fees of some sort will follow. Look what happened to Indy Car guess which ones going broke. One more thing I was a minor once and I wanted alot of things too, but guess what, I had to earn it and become of age, why should It be any different for the minors of the 21st century. Maybe Kiley will help you organize a minors only game and get that warm fuzzy feeling going on..

[FYREGOD]

It's just my opinion, but I see minors in the airsoft scene as kind of a lesson in firearm safety and drug resistance. You can bet if a minor abides by our safety guidelines, they wouldn't likely be the one to accidentally shoot their sibling while handling a real firearm. It's also a type of social club of sorts too. While bonding with adults, they would be less pursuaded to do drugs as they would have a strong support system in their fellow comrades. Having a strong support system can also help prevent depressed retards like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine school killings) from acting out so aggressively.

I also saw nothing in Bucket's statement (nor anything he's said to me personally) about turning a profit or about taking over the world of airsoft politics with the UARC.
I suggest that people reading this thread, spend a little more time reading ALL of the details (like Law Enforcement wanting to destroy the fun of our sport) and making fewer assumptions.

[**INFIDEL**]

I did'nt say he or anybody else was going to or wanting to take over airsoft. As for reading I read very well and I saw all kinds of warning signs that were the first steps to regulation and that being said after regulation comes fees. I think the minors need to walk before they run, a kindergarden as It were of airsoft and be taught the safe handeling of these tools in a peer setting then move on to bigger and better things. But then I was taught in the home what guns are and can do long before I could'nt even spell Kimber, Mossberg,ETC We can all agree that we could do without the Columbine crap that went on, but then I blame the parents and the current laws on the books for this. A parent can go to jail for using a belt on a child when said child F***** up. If this minor thing Is as big an issue as it appears then all you responsible adults should get them together and show them the proper handling and care of these toys, and upon completion of this class be allowed to play with us adults, If we so choose { And this being free of charge and on your time of course } I'm not trying to be an ass here but It was'nt any easier for me when I was there age, and I think I turned out just fine I served In the military,can hold a full time job and have a mortgage.

[Kileyhaz]

Youch, not touching the pro/con minors discussion of this conversation with a 10 foot pole...  

I did want to respond to the liberal use of my name above though and clarify that, yes I do support the general idea behind getting community leaders in the sport as involved in the law and politics aspect as possible.  The general observation is that airsoft is slowly moving from an underground pass time to a more visible position in the US as it picks up popularity.  While not on the same recognition level nationally as paintball, one day it may be much more comparable.  That said I do feel that airsofters in general can take steps today to secure greater freedoms tomorrow.  Buckets plan may be too much, too soon, and from someone at not quite the right level of authority, that much is evident with the responses seen in this thread.

Perhaps the work that CAOC is moving towards may be the better platform to tap into to allow some leverage in the future should new legislation or bad PR threaten the sport, they have the funds and several respected retired service members willing to fight that fight if asked.  Bucket, I'm sure your research with local law enforcement could be useful to them as well. (http://www.caoc-a.com/)

As to to regulation of the sport in AZ itself, its coming and in some cases here, though certainly not in the form illustrated above.  AA does have a set of rules that are expected to be followed, as does TAC.  Many of the smaller teams and clubs that gather outside the larger bounds of TAC or AA, all have used those regulations (or some form of them) as a baseline and throw their own little twists in as well.  Those rules can be anything from the nationally recognized fps brackets, to the use of safety gear, or the use/abuse of AOs throughout the state.  Some 'regulation' may be as rough as an unspoken word not to play in city parks, but its still there.  While I pray that 'pay-to-play' events stay the exception (like lion clawsBalkan HammerNight Scorpion etc or the occasional use of a payed venue such as a paintball field for CQB) rather then the norm I don't think standardizing rules has had all that much impact.

Anyhow, the above is my thoughts and not necessarily those of AA's governing body, nor TAC's, I just wanted to get it out in the open since I was brought into the conversation as some sort of power icon.  I'm no expert by any means, I do what I can for the sport when I can, nothing more.

[Bucket]

I am glad you brought up these points. It is possibly too soon for this idea, but then again I feel if we are to gain any true respect within the LE and government communities we need to be fully organized.

Do you like football? Baseball, Soccer, Hockey?
It started out the same way now it is recognized across the country at a Governmental level and has legal standing. They all have one major thing in common, and national set of rules which they all abide by. I am sure there were people who criticized and scoffed at the idea of a national set of rules but they exist now. Hmmm what other sport started out such as airsoft..... oh thats right PAINTBALL! Now it is nationally recognized as well.

Perhaps this community is not ready for this idea.

As for the money aspect... I get nothing from this nor do I want anything from this except possibly the feeling that I have done something to further airsoft and make it more acceptable in the eyes of the community. As for money I could care less, AND that is in general.

As for the minors issues that is really for the law to figure out, the minors comments made above were and example of the differences in rules and reg.

However your comments are greatly appreciated as this help me and anyone else who may read this thread to discover just how much further airsoft needs to go.

Thank you for the input.

[FYREGOD]

I apollogize[sp?] for my brashness toward you two. I was just upset at how a good idea (in my opinion) was shot down so quickly while it hadn't even been on the board for a day. I don't understand how regulations lead to fees unless the state makes it illegal to use airsoft weapons on public lands. I figure, if we are organized at the time the fed or the state would try to pull this number, we'd likely have a much larger voice.
Think of the smoking ban. I read recently that most non-smokers tolerated smoke in bars because that's the way it's always been and it was expected as part of the scene. But since smokers didn't stand up for their rights in a large enough number nor were they organized, the ban passed anyway. I don't expect non-smokers to stand for smokers' rights any more than I expect non-airsofters to stand for ours. We need to stand for our own rights and doing that as a collective would make it a much larger voice that couldn't be overlooked.
The regulations Bucket is proposing are strictly voluntary. If you don't like the regulations, simply don't employ them in your group. He's simply trying to create a uniform set of rules that all airsofters would already know before attending a function hosted by another team with different rules. This set of rules would be based on past judgements so that each airsofter (of any age) would be protected from liability as much as possible. Paintball has been around much longer than airsoft and they aren't required to pay fees at all events, but paintballers do have one common voice that can't be missed only because of their sheer numbers and popularity. We don't have either of those luxuries... yet. You see references to paintball all the time on t.v. I can only think of one show, an episode of Boston Legal, that made a reference to airsoft. William Shatner's character kept shooting people in his office with a cheap spring powered pistol... which isn't good advertisement due to the fact of the lack of eye protection. The odd thing (for me) was that no one on the show knew what an airsoft weapon was. It's been a daily thought in my life for the past 6+ years. With the growing number of crimes committed using airsoft weapons on the rise, I fear we may lose our sport due to GOVERNMENT (not our own) regulations such as the "pink painted weapons" Bucket mentioned. If we can show the general public that there is a positive aspect of airsoft weapon use, then maybe they'll think twice before voting to ban it's use or regulating it in a manner that would be just as detrimental.

[azsarge]

If I were to attend another organizations event, I would respectfully abide by their rules.

Minors, facemasks, etc do not apply to me, so I don't care.

I agree with the AA rules, because they make sense to me.  I disagree with some other organizations rules, but I will follow them if I attend their game.

This does not mean, however, that I would even CONSIDER changing the AA rules simply to be in sync with another group in AZ.

As far as TAC goes, they can do what they want.

[Vince]

I think things work fine now.

If it were up to me, there would be no minors allowed. They really aren't the future of airsoft. It would be one thing if the median age of AAers was like, 50, but, it's not. It's more like 23-25.

You mean to tell me that 6 years constitutes a generation gap?

This seems like a solution to a problem that does not exist.

[Ares]

This seems like a solution to a problem that does not exist.

Agreed.

If it ain't broke'...

[Turkey]

Please explain how minors are not the future of airsoft? Some of you people are 40+ and you know you cant be doing this forever. And why should airsoft be only open to those 21+ who pay taxes? Im nowhere near 21 but i pay my own taxes. Hell, some of us kids are more responsible that adults! Just the fact that you guys turn this idea down is ridicules. Bucket and his Org are not trying to gain anything from this. Isn't every arisoft orgs goal the same? Doesnt every org want to promote the sport so it can flourish? With out ONE strong voice this sport will fall apart. Without ONE set of rules this sport is destined to stay the way it is. Football, Baseball, Basketball from Peewee to Professional all follow the same rules, why cant we?