Author Topic: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08  (Read 15332 times)

Offline bemasher

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gauge

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #121 on: October 26, 2008, 02:39:26 PM »
What follows is a jumbled collection of afterthoughts (I still don't understand fully what happened either) so if it doesn't make sense or you don't like it, i don't give a damn.

Sign and Counter Sign. (e.g. Thunder... "Flash")

It's not hard but no one (myself included) thought to make one up for the raid on the refinery or whatever the hell that building was, and I'm kicking myself now. We had planned about an hour ahead to take that building in force but they had two guys in there, no surrounding perimeter force (that I could see, I entered the facility through the east entrance with Stick 2) or an intercept team to cut us off or ambush the PEDAR unit enroute to the extract zone.

WTH is that? The idea of having to take that building and calculating about 60% casualties for the insertion teams as well as for the PEDAR perimeter security forces was so predominant on the raiding team's mind we never thought to question shooting whoever didn't come in with us. I.E. the second infiltration squad wouldn't reveal even half of their faces when they entered the building on the west side so we couldn't identify their camouflage patterns... so... we shot at them (sorry guys...) Sign and Countersign would have been a Godsend. The two Venezuelan guys in the building were dead so fast, we couldn't comprehend that there wouldn't be any other contacts in that facility or even surrounding it until the bulk of our platoon was half way back to our FOB. At one point we sat around arguing with each other after the recovery mission regarding where the prisoner actually was, who was escorting him etc, that our 360 perimeter sagged to virtually nothing and we still had no losses, even when a small task force of (maybe venezuelans) began harrassing our south east side.

Afterwards the stroll to the nuke was completely amiss with any perimeter forces, units on patrol, or even a lone sniper crew dug in where the recovery team would have had to sacrifice either speed or personnel to recover the objective both on the way in and on the way back. Was the nuke even hidden in Venezuelan territory? I'd rather have been with the assault group who took the ridge near the "tower/smelter/that-concrete-tall-thing". Suggestion-wise I'd put in for the following with the game designers. Honestly, less story is better. Tom Clancy is cool to read, not roleplay. At least to me. Simple directives are better and this was the case most of the time but when the game slowed to a crawl for a hostage negotiation... and then CIA disarmed but stole the nuke and took off with it to the other end of the field, I don't understand where the hell that all came from or why the PEDAR forces didn't feel compelled to send a support team to escort the CIA operatives and make sure the nuke was handled correctly until the mission was called complete. This is made all the more surprising, knowing from the outset that the CIA are out for themselves and clearly operating independently to further their own goals both from the briefing and in action. Ultimately, it felt underwhelming as hell for the PEDAR and maybe the venezuelans who'd had several firefights prior to this one single action to recover the nuke and battle for the keys and codes in the first place only to have it stolen and they couldn't do much about it. Thank god the ASOV driver and the guy who grenaded us in the ASOV were cool enough to let a small unit from PEDAR go and get our bomb back after we shot up the CIA guys when they came back. (BTW, sorry to the guy in Multi-Cam who got lit in the parking lot when we were rolling out to pick that bomb back up and you charged us..maybe? We couldn't figure out what you were doing and you kept charging forward...so...yeah.)

Separately, I'd also suggest to everyone in the future for large ops that are free, bring one set of fatigues for each main force (excluding specialist units like the CIA group) so that way there isn't such a massive overbalancing in team sizes if one group collectively decides to not show up. (I feel kind of bad for the venezuelans but I also sort of envy them, they had more than enough people to shoot at.) If everyone is encouraged to bring two sets of cammies we can change on the field and have volunteers join up with the side that has less combatants. Last, the game's premise and objectives were actually simple enough that images would have been more than enough for the pre-op packet along with a HINT of what to do.

The rest could have been covered in the briefing and all the pre-game safety crap could have gone in the packet too including medic rules and real world injury code but w/e maybe because it got drilled into everyone's head for a long time in the morning that was why we didn't run into injuries that could have been prevented, etc. As far as having two red flags for different game stopping events, it's a good idea but maybe in the future we shouldn't use "Corpsman" for real injuries but "Injury" as code word for real injuries. A few of the guys on the field were actual Marines currently serving or past Marines who have served and "Corpsman" is just a part of their vocabulary now especially if we are having medic rules and they need to call for "medical assistance". I'm not a Marine but I rolled with one current and one vet on my unit yesterday and i heard it crop up a couple times and not because there was a real world problem, I'm not sure they caught the slips either.

All in all, pretty good event, though I think some people got tired and more than a few a little cranky towards the height of the day. (at least on PEDAR though I may be speaking out of turn.) All I'm going to say is this: 1. It's Tucson, you can't say you didn't expect it to be hot. 2. If you got bored, welcome to MILSIM, even the boring parts of "combat" are accurately recreated. Orders get botched, information is sporadic and jumbled to all hell, you go up a hill, then back down only to go up again and down once more. You do more walking, running, climbing, spitting, swearing and screaming than shooting and God only knows that the maniac who may run faster than you in a 60lb. vest and rifle and happens to be screaming at you to do something, is screaming so that you don’t just sit down when the action dries up and eventually get cramps later on or just to piss you off because “you’re not cool,” it's to keep the people involved and active so that if they feel like they did waste their time, they didn't waste it sitting down feeling ignored.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Kileyhaz

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #122 on: October 26, 2008, 02:55:42 PM »
Thanks Gauge!  Your post is very helpful to see what could have been improved.  Thanks for breaking it out like that :)
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Offline SVT Cobra

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #123 on: October 26, 2008, 05:37:49 PM »
Great game! I hope the pictures get posted up I really want to see the action from the cameras' point of view.
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Offline Screwloose

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #124 on: October 26, 2008, 08:12:06 PM »
Yeah it was fun.

All games go crazy at some point, the trick is to find the right balance between narrative story line and objective compleation.  I find that simple is always better, then when things go crazy in the field you can just adapt and make it part of the story.

I do agree that if a percentage of the people attending would bring 2 sets of camo, it would help to even things up when people don't show up.

My only observations from the Green side were a general lack of unity and leadership.  And I met several people from both sides throughout the day who did not bring any water.  This is something that should never happen at a Milsim.  You would be better off forgetting your BB's.

Other than that I had a good time, and I can't wait for the next game.
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Offline prisoner12

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2008, 09:08:32 PM »
anyway, from what i experienced yesterday, though i was freaking tired after about 1 hour running, climbing with my heavy M14, i still enjoyed the game VERY MUCH.  Maybe someone felt a little boring after a while because it looks like they didn't have too many chances to spray their BBs out of their weapon and rather, they spend most of the time following squad running and moving or staying alert. But this is what the real batter is supposed to be, isn't it?  I don't know if you guys ever played a video game called "flashpoint", or "armed assult" (which is 2nd generation of "flashpoint"). This game is rated as the most real simulated millitary game and is used as the training platform for real army training program.  When i first played the game, all i do is just follow the squad running and moving, without shooting 1 bullet out of my rifle or even seeing the enemy. And yesterday what i experienced is much close to it, i didn't fire too much and i follow the order of squad leader to do what i should do: setup perimeter, stay alert, take cover while pulling back, etc.  To tell u truth, i only shot out 100 rounds with my M14 ( i used semi-auto mode), and i killed only 1 person but got killed twice (from 40 yards away). Not very good performance, but i enjoyed it. At least i enjoy it much more than hide behind some barrier and jumped out shooting out bunchs of bbs and hide again and shoot again, which seems like the only purpose of shooting bb is to shoot bb. That is not much fine.  In addition, I like the story line pretty much. It made me be very clear about my purpose in the battle field rather than just go around hoping to engage some enemy and shoot as much bb as possible.  I'll definitely join the next game.  :mrgreen:
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Offline spudly13

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #126 on: October 26, 2008, 09:47:22 PM »
Great game! I had a lot fun. Biggest event I have been to since I started a year ago. It was very fast paced in the beginning for us on the PEDAR side. Once we got the nuke it was a bit slower. Half way through I volunteered to carry the nuke so I was behind the fighting. The rush down the hill was awesome to watch! Taking the ASOV was just as great. Then the battle with the CIA at the old hotel was fast and intense. Thanks to the Desert Hawks and everyone who made this game memorable!
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Offline Schwer_Punkt_91

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #127 on: October 26, 2008, 10:01:52 PM »
FYI:  Pics are posted at:  viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22904

...and a couple of videos too.  Enjoy!

 [smilie=armata_pdt_06.gif]
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Offline Ghostsequel

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #128 on: October 26, 2008, 10:38:57 PM »
I would agree with Gauge on a lot of what he said.  The storyline is great and all, but let's be honest, when game on is called, it's all about "shoot those guys, run here."  I've played a lot of airsoft over the past few years, and I have never, ever, seen such intensive storylines make any difference on the game.  Less storytime, more shootytime would have been prefferable.  Some background is kinda cool, Dungeons and Dragons on a hiking trip isn't.

One thing that I think would go a LOOOOOONG way to making games run smoother is uniform requirements.  Half the time i couldn't tell who the hell was on my team; PEDAR had desert Marpat, ACU, Multicam, black, tigerstripe, DCUs.... etc.  Some of the CIA guys seemed to be wearing camo.  Have stricter uniform requirements.  Venezuela goes woodland/green marpat, PEDAR goes desert/ tan marpat.  CIA wears solid colors.  Something simple like that.  We had a lot of trouble figuring out who was who.

That stuff said, my respect goes out to those who put this game on.  I recognize that planning, organizing, setting up, and running a game with that many people can't be easy.  Cool props and whatnot, too.
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Offline Fat_Santa54

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #129 on: October 26, 2008, 11:22:44 PM »
actually I was talking to the CIA guy we shot at in the parking lot and He said we didnt hit him. Something about the way we fired and that with the moving vehicle we didn't account for the angle and flow of the shots. But anyway props to the CIA guy that was driving the jeep for leting us take it over and then driving us down to his base even though he did leave us to walk back it all added to the realism of it.

 And on a side note one thing i would like to see is more people taking advantage of their radios. I got off of the squad chanel about 5 minutes in because some idiots had their VOX on the minute we left the breafing and never turned it off, it even happend a few times on the command channel i switched to, even then It was more of a follow the masses.

And also great job on team phantom for taking leadership early on and pretty much leading us the entire way (i just followed them). Once again great game, do another one soon seeing as i dont think i will make it to Balkin hammer (relatives can be such a drag sometimes)
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Offline Ganef

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #130 on: October 27, 2008, 07:31:10 AM »
Quote
and then CIA disarmed but stole the nuke and took off with it to the other end of the field, I don't understand where the hell that all came from or why the PEDAR forces didn't feel compelled to send a support team to escort the CIA operatives and make sure the nuke was handled correctly until the mission was called complete. This is made all the more surprising, knowing from the outset that the CIA are out for themselves and clearly operating independently to further their own goals both from the briefing and in action. Ultimately, it felt underwhelming as hell for the PEDAR and maybe the venezuelans who'd had several firefights prior to this one single action to recover the nuke and battle for the keys and codes in the first place only to have it stolen and they couldn't do much about it. Thank god the ASOV driver and the guy who grenaded us in the ASOV were cool enough to let a small unit from PEDAR go and get our bomb back after we shot up the CIA guys when they came back. (BTW, sorry to the guy in Multi-Cam who got lit in the parking lot when we were rolling out to pick that bomb back up and you charged us..maybe? We couldn't figure out what you were doing and you kept charging forward...so...yeah.)

This is an easy explanation, if you would have sent a small group, we would have iced them and taken the nuke, but because you sent like 20+ dudes to escort the nuke we told you to form an infantry screen and then we just drove off, unfortunately leaving sandy behind (I thought he got in). We had to double cross everyone or we wouldn't get anything done.
I didn't have to haul you guys to get the nuke in the end, especially since madcatjoe put a gun to my head (not safe, not cool, but he did apologize). I knew you had limited time to get to the nuke and honestly I thought my guys would just kill you all when I dropped you off. But airsoft is about letting everyone have fun. I was sent to pick my guys up(who happened to be in the bunker 5ft from where you shot up the vehicle but were still giving me the WTF look as I drove off), the whole rush the vehicle was a bit rash.

I think there was a lot more confusion on the field due to decisions made by players than ones made by the game control. When the two teams were looking at each other in a lull in the fighting and then the tan team just rushed lead by the marinesim dudes, we were in the midst of a negotiation that would have led to their benefit but because they rushed a killed everyone that couldn't happen.

The field is neat, the props were a plus, the guys playing were honorable, this shows we can have large games that turn out to be fun and free.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 11:12:26 AM by Ganef »
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Offline Gauge

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #131 on: October 27, 2008, 10:48:27 AM »
Quote
This is an easy explanation, if you would have sent a small group, we would have iced them and taken the nuke, but because you sent like 20+ dudes to escort the nuke we told you to form an infantry screen and then we just drove off, unfortunately leaving sandy behind (I thought he got in). We had to double cross everyone or we wouldn't get anything done.
I didn't have to haul you guys to get the nuke in the end, especially since madcatjoe put a gun to my head (not safe, not cool, but he did apologize). It was in the effort to keep the game fun for everyone. I knew you had limited time to get to the nuke and honestly I thought my guys would just kill you all when I dropped you off. But airsoft is about letting everyone have fun. I was sent to pick my guys up(who happened to be in the bunker 5ft from where you shot up the vehicle but were still giving me the WTF look as I drove off), the whole rush the vehicle was a bit rash.

I think there was a lot more confusion on the field dude to decisions made by players than ones made by the game control. When the two teams were looking at each other in a lull in the fighting and then the tan team just rushed lead by the marinesim dudes, we were in the midst of a negotiation that would have led to their benefit but because they rushed a killed everyone that couldn't happen.

There wasn't much of a choice in our decision to take the vehicle down as well as charge off the mountain, we lost our only bargaining chip in a tenth of the time it took to get it. That left PEDAR and the Marine unit with a simple choice. Either we let the nuke disappear and do nothing or we take the vehicle out and go and get our bomb back. We chose the latter because at the very least we were not going to have sweat and ran and screamed our asses off for nothing; our job was to SECURE the nuke after disarming it. We were going to complete that job, by any means possible--end of story. As for letting us be taken out by your crew when you dropped us off--I guess they just weren't expecting us to show up and go Boondock Saints on them. Thanks for the ride though.
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Offline Newbie_shampoo

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #132 on: October 27, 2008, 01:45:42 PM »
I'd have to agree with Gauge, the game was fun dont get me wrong but i do love an organized game and organized team. it was a huge cluster ball during the main action points. The area had sooo much potential for a better game to be quite honest. Madcatjoe has a point the uniforms was all messed up i wasn't sure most the time who i was supposed to be shooting and thats not the game creators fault, but the people who lack good uni's. im not saying everyone should meet my expectatons i just wanted to shoot the right person without hesitation. All in all though the game is 4 out of 5 stars because i did have fun. oh wait one thing that did bother me was when we were in a firefight one time, KOBO was out and got shot again and he started cursing out at joe, little advice KOBO, Thats airsoft accidents happen were not all perfect shooters and to be honest you shouldn't have lashed out but instead acted in a professional manner and sat down instead of staying standing, nothing again'st you, i think your a awesome guy, just a little immature.

P.S  only thing i say needed work on was the whole uniform arangement. but game was AWESOME great job guys
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Offline Sergeant First Class Keenan

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2008, 05:01:52 PM »
Wow, I hate to say it but theres alot of bitching going on over nothing.

Stow the my team was better then yours and I'm better then you crap. Its not needed and really not cool at all. There is no Airsoft Navy Cross. Let it go.

The uniforms were an issue, I was one of the CIA guys. In fact I was the one wearing the UCP/ACU top. (And as Airsofter1 said I was almost in the ASOV the whole time I have a fractured ankle.)I didn't know who was on what side 90% of the time. I saw people wearing civilain clothes that I know weren't running with us.

And as far as the ASOV you should thank David for burning his gas, with his POV to drive you guys around. Remember he could just said "Uh, no get off." its about having a good time not giving yourself a heart attack over playing BB gun war.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 06:34:57 PM by Malicious Ind »
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Offline Airsofter1

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Re: Op: Sic Semper Tyrannis 10.25.08
« Reply #134 on: October 27, 2008, 05:59:33 PM »
I am not a big fan of the 3 team idea.  

Or am I a fan of capture rules.  Its always "do it after you kill them" kinda thing.  In airsoft it would be a really really hard thing to do if it was otherwise.  When you die, you come back in a few minutes.  Not so in real life so an individual will think otherwise when presented with the option.  Just doesn't seem like a realistic thing to incorporate in a game.

Or am I a fan of "negotiating" in a game.  Everyone is trying to screw the other guy over so its foolish to think otherwise.  In the real world you would want to go home and not die, so negotiating in instances like that would of course be favorable.  Ultimately people show up to shoot each other.  No negotiating is going to be a new Coyote Tactical SOP and General Order.

And this point always seems to happen at every game - regen points.  They always seem to end up way to close to the action.  I know we did it once, and a couple of us said to ourselves that we need to move it back.  People get tired, people get lazy, but its really frustrating when you have dead players hanging out close to live players.  And sometimes it unavoidable because the other team pushed hard and fast into you lines.

That was real shi+ty of those green guys that registered and didn't show.  Really fucked up the balance of teams it seems.

The nuke prop was really cool.  Again, props to Brian for putting that together.

The use of that entire area was awesome.  In the TAC games of long ago they would always concentrate on the smelter area.  That would lose its luster real fast with me.  I've always wanted someone to host a game down there that utilized that large area.

Use of the camo netting everywhere was cool, but we didn't really get a chance to interact with it so much.

The story was very in depth.  I didn't really see it interfering with the play though.  There we other reasons for any of that.

NO ATV'rs, NO hikers, NO campers fvcking up the AO or action.  There was one time someone drove up to the Alamo, but no one was around so no fool there.  Seems really rare to have that happen now-a-days.

Thumbs up to most of the Tan team.  Always good times.  And high-five to those on the green team that endured bad conditions.

Thumbs down to the complainers.  Not everyday is a Sunday.  Don't take it too seriously.  Its just a game in the end.

I'd still do it all again (except negotiate).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »