Author Topic: fully customizing an m4  (Read 1951 times)

Offline nynone

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fully customizing an m4
« on: April 18, 2010, 01:33:40 PM »
hey guys, i'm looking to get myself into debt... i mean get myself broke ;) ...by putting in a few days of installing parts onto a new m4. this gun will is going to be all custom, the only stock part will probably be the gearbox from whoever manufactures the gun (unless i have to downgrade the spring to a 110). first off, looking towards a KWA, or G&G. any ideas on which models to get? money isn't an issue here, just looking to see how much i'm going to need to save up for it all. my use for it is some cqb, and mainly small desert field play. possibly going to be doing milsim, but i'd most likely be a recon/infantry man in those games. so, i guess here's the real question i'm asking: what gun(s) have the best gearbox inside them for cqb play, with a pretty high rof? think of a gunner's rifle, that's what i'm aiming for, just don't remember what the technical term is.

also, do you guys think that a better alternative would be to just build from scratch? buy the body, gearbox, etc. all separate? if so, what gearboxes are out there that offer pretty high rof, as well as quality shim jobs, and are very reliable?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
"To Frank Castle... the finest solider, the finest undercover cop, the finest man I\'ve ever known. What am I gonna do without you?"

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Offline Whiskey11

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 01:56:25 PM »
Quote from: "nynone"
hey guys, i'm looking to get myself into debt... i mean get myself broke ;) ...by putting in a few days of installing parts onto a new m4. this gun will is going to be all custom, the only stock part will probably be the gearbox from whoever manufactures the gun (unless i have to downgrade the spring to a 110). first off, looking towards a KWA, or G&G. any ideas on which models to get? money isn't an issue here, just looking to see how much i'm going to need to save up for it all. my use for it is some cqb, and mainly small desert field play. possibly going to be doing milsim, but i'd most likely be a recon/infantry man in those games. so, i guess here's the real question i'm asking: what gun(s) have the best gearbox inside them for cqb play, with a pretty high rof? think of a gunner's rifle, that's what i'm aiming for, just don't remember what the technical term is.

also, do you guys think that a better alternative would be to just build from scratch? buy the body, gearbox, etc. all separate? if so, what gearboxes are out there that offer pretty high rof, as well as quality shim jobs, and are very reliable?

Where to begin... first your desire to spend money... err shall I say waste money.  Most AEG's produced today, including some of the cheap clones have the internals required to do CQB (Not sure what that FPS is, usually it's 1J or ~330 w/ .20's or some places do 350 w/ .20's) and upgrade to the Lionclaws rules or Airsoft AZ's rules (375 w/ .25's MAX and 400 w/ .20's respectivly).  So gutting is completely unnecessary.  As to purchasing and only leaving the gearbox left, thats excessive.  Especially with M4 variants because many manufacturers produce multiple versions of an M4, usually one will fit your preference.  Externals are subjective, as to what to start with?

If your goal is to do Field AND CQB in one gun you are limited to basically to the CQB FPS limit with the exception of three guns...  Those three guns are the Systema PTW, Celsius CTW, and the ICS M4 series.  Of which, the most practical of the three is the ICS M4.  If you plan on raping it externally and replacing a lot of the externals, the ICS isnt a bad choice.  The reason I say you wont be limited by those guns is because you can hot swap upper gearboxes by removing the rear body pin and pulling out the upper gearbox and replacing it.  Ideally, this means you can go from your CQB setup (330 w/ .20's) to your Field set up (400 w/ .20's) with the swap of the upper gearbox.  How practical that system is depends on how often you switch between CQB and Field play.

Internally, the lower gearbox on the ICS is spot on, the only thing I'd really tamper with is the addition of a MOSFET system with at least Active Braking (look at www.extreme-fire.com for said MOSFET systems).  The upper gearbox you can rape to your content, they come stock shooting from 315-330 so you can buy a spare upper gearbox and fit your "field" FPS upgrades in.  Assuming you buy another complete upper gearbox to gut, I'd replace the spring guide, spring, piston, piston head, and cylinder head at a minimum, that leaves you with the stock Airnozzle, stock tappet plate and tappet plate spring, and the cylinder.  To get to ~ 400 FPS, a V2 Bearing Spring guide made by Modify/Guarder/Whatever in addition to a quality piston (Prometheus Hard is always a good choice, I've had decent luck with the Bravo Piston in my M14 at 450 w/ .20's or I also had good luck with the Guarder Polycarb piston) and a G&G Vortex Piston or any other bearing piston head (Yeah yeah, you dont need bearings on both ends, but you'll see why I am recommending both in a little bit) a Guarder SP110 spring (yes, SP110 should chrono about 390 w/ .20's with both bearing piston head and spring guide) and a Modify/Guarder Cylinder head.  Add a tightbore barrel (I've had excellent luck with Madbull's 6.03's) a good hop up rubber (Guarder Black or G&G Green) and an H Nub or Concave Nub (SCS) and replace the piston head O-ring with a #14 O-ring from the hardware store and you should see very consistent FPS for field use in the area of 400 w/ .20's and it should be very accurate and long ranged.  

Run the sucker on an 11.1v LiPo with the MOSFET system and you should be somewhere around 20-25 RPS which is more than enough for both field and CQB use.  

Externally, at a minimum you will need to replace the outerbarrel.  ICS still uses poorly designed (but decently executed) multipiece barrels that after years of use will develope some flex to them.  When I bought my ICS M16A3 I replaced the outer barrel imediately with a Guarder Multipiece steel barrel and that sucker went form a bleh gun to a "WOW!" gun.  

Lets  break down the parts list one last time:
===Internals===
MOSFET system with Active Braking (or more)
11.1v LiPo (C rating * Ah (mAh/1000) needs to be higher than 30 amps at a minimum)
Spare ICS Upper Gearbox (Stock FPS but Complete)
--In Spare Upper Gearbox--
Guarder/Modify V2 Cylinder Head
Guarder/Modify V2 Bearing Spring Guide
Prometheus Hard Piston
G&G Vortex Piston Head with Bearings
#14 O-ring
Stock ICS Cylinder
Stock ICS Tappet Plate and Tappet Plate Spring
Stock ICS Airnozzle
Guarder SP110 Spring
Madbull 6.03
G&G Green Hop Up Rubber/Guarder Black Hop Up Rubber
Big Out/Element/Echo1 H Nub or SCS Concave Spacer

===Externals===
Quality One Piece Outer Barrel
Whatever else you want to modify Externally, ICS guns have proprietary recievers so no-go on changing the reciever but everything else is good to go.


Thats my recommendation anyway.  Cheers!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nynone

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 09:53:28 PM »
damn... thats way more than i expected, but thank you much! with that "little" bit of information (heavy sarcasm of course lol), i guess i've got a good lineup started for shopping. by any chance would you know of a reliable, and affordable, place to get everything? i'm not limiting my spending on parts, but don't want to get raped myself on prices haha. sounds ironic, but whatever.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
"To Frank Castle... the finest solider, the finest undercover cop, the finest man I\'ve ever known. What am I gonna do without you?"

"Get a girlfriend."

Offline axisofoil

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 10:12:03 PM »
Quote from: "nynone"
damn... thats way more than i expected, but thank you much! with that "little" bit of information (heavy sarcasm of course lol), i guess i've got a good lineup started for shopping. by any chance would you know of a reliable, and affordable, place to get everything? i'm not limiting my spending on parts, but don't want to get raped myself on prices haha. sounds ironic, but whatever.

www.airsoftgi.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nynone

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 10:32:02 PM »
that's where i've been looking. just trying to figure out if there's any other non-major places to find these items/guns. although, GI seems to be the best place for everything. maybe i'll get most of my stuff from them... i'll see what has at the Gearbox as well, saves me for shipping time/money. any other places guys?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
"To Frank Castle... the finest solider, the finest undercover cop, the finest man I\'ve ever known. What am I gonna do without you?"

"Get a girlfriend."

Offline axisofoil

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2010, 10:45:02 PM »
Quote from: "nynone"
that's where i've been looking. just trying to figure out if there's any other non-major places to find these items/guns. although, GI seems to be the best place for everything. maybe i'll get most of my stuff from them... i'll see what has at the Gearbox as well, saves me for shipping time/money. any other places guys?

for the amount of money you're looking to spend. airsoftgi has only a 3.50 handling fee, no shipping.

airsoftatlanta
airsoftoutletnw
airsoftextreme
weaponblender
airsplat
ehobbyasia
ebairsoft
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline XavierMace

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 11:29:48 PM »
If you decide to go the ICS route, send me a PM and I can get you a good price.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 07:53:39 AM »
Quote from: "XavierMace"
If you decide to go the ICS route, send me a PM and I can get you a good price.

Hey Xavier, maybe you could relay a message to ICS to stop using multipiece barrels too while you are at it :P  Honestly, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so!  If they really want to keep the adjustability, tell them to clone the Guarder Multipiece design, it's head over heals better than their current and does not wobble at all.  The middle section of the barrel actually slides inside of the part that is held in by the delta ring.  It's adjustable as well by undoing two setscrews, sliding the barrel, and retightening them down.  That and a nod for 8mm bearing lower gearbox would be nice too ;)

I tease, but only a little :)

ASGI is starting to lose my trust.  They messed up my last two packages and that frustrated the living crap out of me since they where done two weeks apart and 3 months after any major holiday (new years).  They've also done a rather piss poor job of keeping their inventory updated on their webpage and take their time notifying you when stuff is out of stock.  In general, they've lost their edge which is a dang shame as they have a lot of good parts there.

Ehobby Asia is where I go when I dont care about time frame perse (usually 2 weeks to my door) and I wander around the numerous other sites on the internet in the states (Airsoft Atlanta, Airsoft Extreme, Trinity Airsoft, Airsoft North West, etc).  ASGI is almost always a last resort for when I can't get it anywhere else.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline axisofoil

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 08:28:12 AM »
That sucks. I haven't ever had a problem with ASGI. But... the inventory system has been lacking, I'll give it that much. Ehobby does really well. I can count on the part within two weeks... but most of the time it's here in three days. I don't know how they manage 3 days from China to Arizona... but it happens... :D
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Offline XavierMace

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 08:39:24 AM »
Quote from: "Whiskey11"
Quote from: "XavierMace"
If you decide to go the ICS route, send me a PM and I can get you a good price.

Hey Xavier, maybe you could relay a message to ICS to stop using multipiece barrels too while you are at it :P  Honestly, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so!  If they really want to keep the adjustability, tell them to clone the Guarder Multipiece design, it's head over heals better than their current and does not wobble at all.  The middle section of the barrel actually slides inside of the part that is held in by the delta ring.  It's adjustable as well by undoing two setscrews, sliding the barrel, and retightening them down.  That and a nod for 8mm bearing lower gearbox would be nice too ;)

I'm a bit confused.  I've never used the Guarder barrels, but that sounds pretty much the same as how ICS does theirs.  You have two pins holding the collar to the middle barrel section, then the front piece (regardless of barrel length) thread onto the middle piece and is secured by 4 set screws.

I tell them to make an 8mm gearbox every couple of months.  I'm hoping once mine is done, that might give them a little more prodding to actually start making their own.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline nynone

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 12:18:02 PM »
I've heard a lot of complaints ASGI customers, mainly that stock wasn't updated, and they either lost money due to bad special orders, or other screwy reasons. It seems a little shady now, though they have some good prices and plenty of parts.

As for ehobby, i'll have to try that place out. 3 days from China to AZ? i could have a gun fully assembled in a weeks time, including shipping time. now that's insane. i was expecting this to take me a couple months of waiting for all my parts to come in from different places, and potential waiting time for parts to come in stock lol. 3 day shipping changes things a bit :)

thanks guys for all the input. i got all these places either booked previously, or just finished booking them for my peruse to m4 greatness!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
"To Frank Castle... the finest solider, the finest undercover cop, the finest man I\'ve ever known. What am I gonna do without you?"

"Get a girlfriend."

Offline Crono0001

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 12:37:00 PM »
evike.com

it's where i just bought parts for my M4
check it out on the upgrading M4 for range thread
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline HavHav

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 04:58:57 PM »
Hey Chrono,

I noticed you are Air Force Special Forces. Could you come show me some high speed shit one of these days? My guys and the guys in my unit could really use someone so experienced at such a young age to teach us the ropes.

Until then, please take that shit off your sig before you get wrecked.
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Offline Crono0001

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 05:08:08 PM »
Quote from: "HavHav"
Hey Chrono,

I noticed you are Air Force Special Forces. Could you come show me some high speed s*** one of these days? My guys and the guys in my unit could really use someone so experienced at such a young age to teach us the ropes.

Until then, please take that s*** off your sig before you get wrecked.

seriously?  my friends and I put it on there because of that patch.  You're attacking me because of what my sig says?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline axisofoil

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Re: fully customizing an m4
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 05:24:55 PM »
Quote from: "HavHav"
Hey Chrono,

I noticed you are Air Force Special Forces. Could you come show me some high speed s*** one of these days? My guys and the guys in my unit could really use someone so experienced at such a young age to teach us the ropes.

Until then, please take that s*** off your sig before you get wrecked.

I think a PM could have taken care of that. I agree it was disrespectful, but you might have gone a tad bit overboard... I talked to him a little nicer and he's taking it down for you. He didn't know that people got pissy when someone puts on a title that others work their asses off to obtain.

Anyways, I just thought I would let you know that your post count is now 1337 HavHav. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »