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Offline KenCasper

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« on: October 03, 2004, 01:44:16 AM »
This is a petition driven prop. that was attempted to be put on last year, but they fell short of signatures. Basicly they want to make it so you have to show ID to vote, currently many districts do not ask for proof of ID. This prop also wants to make it so that inorder to recieve goverment aid you would also have to prove leagal residence status.
Here is the link to the website from the group who has been pushing this http://www.pan2004.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
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Offline Neepster

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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2004, 06:51:48 AM »
Keep in mind that the average family in Arizona pays an extra $700 a year in taxes to pay for illegal immigrants when you are reading this stuff.  Prop200 isn't perfect, it has it's problems, but we have to do SOMETHING, and you can be damn sure the Feds aren't going to do ANYTHING.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Neepster »
“There is always a danger that collectivism by stealth, the steady erosion of individual responsibility by intrusive government, may strangle freedom by degrees. This, too, requires eternal vigilance.â€￾ – Margaret Thatcher

Offline Paco

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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2004, 09:27:36 AM »
I already voted by mail (for the Nov 2 General elections).  If you chose to vote by mail, they send you a LOT of booklets on all the props and even the candidates.  It's "non partisan" info, explaning what each prop is, and they also provide some "for" and "against" arguments for each side.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline KenCasper

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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2004, 12:07:06 PM »
when did you get your ballot paco? we filled out the requests way back in june and they were "supossed" to have been sent right off by the voting rights officer. Getting real close to the deadline for us to mail them and no absente ballots have arrived YET! And they kept telling us there would be no "state or local" elections this year either just the federal presidental election, so what else is on there besides the pres. elc and prop 200?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
Sgt Kevin Widner
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\"The Harder you train the harder your enemy must train...all comes down to who gives up first!   Mike \"Colonel\" Potter

Offline Greg

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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2004, 12:27:12 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KenCasper</i>
<br />so what else is on there besides the pres. elc and prop 200?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

A lot of people have been going on and on about prop 400 which invloves a light rail system for phoenix that a lot of people seem to want but nobody wants to ride.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
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Offline Screwloose

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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2004, 05:46:14 PM »
I've been reading all the literature that has been arriving, and so far my vote is real easy . . . No to everything.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Screwloose »
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Offline Paco

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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2004, 07:23:09 PM »
I got mine on Friday.  Some of it depends on where you live.  Mine included:

President of the US:

US Senator:

US Rep Dist 3: (for those in this district)

State Senator Dist 6:  (for those in this district)

State Rep Dist 6: (for those in this district)

Corp Comm:

County Attorney:

Sheriff:

DEER VALLEY DIST 97 (for those in this district)
Q1 - Bond Approval
Q2 - Budget Increase
Q3 - Join West-MEC

Prop 100
Prop 101
Prop 102
Prop 103
Prop 104
Prop 105
Prop 200
Prop 300
Prop 400
Prop 401
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline Harley

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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2004, 06:38:17 AM »
So what's everybody's take on Prop 400?  From the literature I've received it sounds like a slush fund to finance this pork barrel Light Rail.
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Offline Paco

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2004, 07:06:44 AM »
Prop 400:  NO!

Light rail is a HUGE waste for Phoenix at this point in time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline yellowmonkey

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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2004, 04:20:20 PM »
Does the Phoenix Light-Rail porject remind anybody of the Simpsons where they had the monorail? They situations seem strikingly similar.

Stupid light rail... NO on 400!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by yellowmonkey »
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Offline TriggerHappy

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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2004, 04:55:04 PM »
maybe this light rail thing is stupid but at the same time the benefits from using the LRT could be extremeley good,but theres a problem Arizonans love there cars even if this does get voted in the problem will be getting people to ride them i think we can all agree that no LRT can beat your car especialy here especialy in the summer months i mean who wants to get in a train car with fifty other people in 115 degree weather not me, and then there's the problem of when you get to your stop how do you get where your going from there walk in a 115 degree weather again not me,and does anyone else think that the hike in gas prices had great timing with this election i mean thats gotta be a contributing factor to how people vote on this thing it's all a big conspiracy just like that wonderful alternate fuel bill LOL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TriggerHappy »
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Offline TriggerHappy

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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2004, 04:57:09 PM »
That one cost us somewhere close to 700 million dollars lets not let that happen again. NO on 400!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TriggerHappy »
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Offline Greg

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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2004, 09:54:53 PM »
From what I've heard, riding the LRT would be more expensive than driving an average car.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
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Offline KenCasper

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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2004, 01:45:52 AM »
What is the proposed route for the rail? Last I heard it was goining to go from the south end of squaw peak area to tempe and that was it.

Phx greatly needs a mass transit system, problem is all proposals thus far are utterly unrealistic, either to centralized (ie down town only), time schedules that make no sense (phx bus system), or just plain to costly. Personally with out reading the prop 400 info and prolly afterwards I'd say no.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
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Offline Ryandetailer

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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2004, 05:51:28 AM »
Russell Pearce on prop 200:
"What they don't want is for Arizonans to know the truth.  Here it is:

1.       Prop. 200 would discourage illegal immigration by requiring all Arizona residents, regardless of race, color, or ethnicity, to provide proof of citizenship before registering to vote or applying for welfare benefits.  Our current system is rife with fraud and abuse, taking needed resources from those legal residents for whom they were intended.

2.       Prop 200 would strengthen Arizona's fight against illegal immigration by requiring government employees to require proof of eligibility and as they become aware of illegal immigration activities in the course of their employment to contact federal immigration officials.

It's really that simple.  
Prop. 200's opponents seem determined to maintain the status quo, which directly benefits the political left and the pro illegal business community, which relies on cheap, illegal labor for big profits.  By pandering to these two groups, the Governor and her allies have put politics above the rule of law, public safety, and national sovereignty.

Left without any rational argument against the measure, the Governor is also claiming that Prop 200 will create a ‘culture of intolerance' in Arizona.

She's right.  It will create a culture of intolerance for welfare fraud that threatens our state's solvency and voter fraud that jeopardizes the integrity of our elections system.  Contrary to what its opponents claim, Prop. 200 does not discriminate against anyone.  It does not target any specific group, except lawbreakers.  And it does not take anyone's rights away.  It only changes the verification process on existing laws. Heaven forbid we actually expect one to be a Citizen to vote and that we ask paid state employees to make sure one is eligible under current law to get your tax dollars."
www.yesonprop200.com


Prop 400:

"Read the FTA figures on your own choice of great streetcar systems to use as examples.

============================================
SALT LAKE CITY
Yearly Operating Loss .............. $99.6 million
Cost per Passenger Trip ............ $16.57
Average trip cost to rider .......... $0.17
Average trip subsidy by taxpayers .. $16.40
Percent commute trips by light rail .. 0.5 percent
Average speed ....................... 16.4 mph
Average miles per trip ............... 7.3 miles

DALLAS
Yearly Operating Loss ............. $214.6 million
Cost per Passenger Trip ............ $19.12
Average trip cost to rider .......... $0.57
Average trip subsidy by taxpayers .. $18.55
Percent commute trips by light rail .. 0.2 percent
Average speed ....................... 16.5 mph
Average miles per trip ............... 5.3 miles

DENVER
Yearly Operating Loss ............. $237.4 million
Cost per Passenger Trip ............ $27.00
Average trip cost to rider .......... $0.81
Average trip subsidy by taxpayers .. $26.19
Percent commute trips by light rail .. 0.4 percent
Average speed ....................... 17.5 mph
Average miles per trip ............... 7.0 miles
============================================

We have been trying in vain to explain your adament stance--that light rail is good for Phoenix--by saying that you are just uninformed. It has gone beyond that simple explanation now.

Your continued insistence that Prop. 400 is good demonstrates WILLFUL IGNORANCE of the monumental burden you would wish on the taxpayers because of the White Elephant Streetcar that the taxpayers will have to feed, with little return, for the next 20 years."
John DeLasaux
Phoenix

"In 1985, voters were promised 233 miles of freeway in exchange for 20 years of higher sales taxes. Today, due to the "miracle" of debt financing, 75% of those 20 years' worth of taxes has been spent. At the same time, only 10% of the freeways to be funded by the tax are open to traffic. Both the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) and the Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG) now concede that, at best, only a third of the promised 233 miles will be built before the sales tax increase runs out in 2006."


I have more if you all need more.

Conlusion: vote NO on 400, it's a waste of our money, and where's our freeways from 20 years ago?

vote YES on 200, this does nothing more than preform checks on the citizens that the FED's aren't going to do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ryandetailer »
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